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How to Build a Community: Starting with “Why?”

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Re: How to Build a Community: Starting with “Why?”

#21

Post by vector_spaces »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #20
vector_spaces wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels a bit elitist to me. I also doubt that there's a single unifying narrative that applies to every user of this forum. For me, browsing HN is a low effort way to get exposed to tech stuff I might not otherwise, and read industry news and interesting takes on that news. There's nothing particularly high minded about my usage. Don't get me wrong, the high quality discussion is pretty special, but the "riff raf…

Yes and no. Rule #1 for starting a community - and starting is not the same as later - is to establish a strong and tight knit core.* That's more important than trying to appeal to _everyone_. Is that elitist? Or smart? Religious beliefs aside (read: it's simply an example), look at Christianity. One guy and twelve disciples. I'm not a preacher but I don't think Jesus was elitist :) * The same can be said of product.…

Elitism and differentiation aren't the same, and in particular the latter doesn't imply the former (and likewise for elitism and exclusivity). You are right about exclusivity and differentiation being effective strategies and gave good examples for how they are useful.

I am usually impressed by the ability of folks on HN to disagree while keeping the conversation civil & interesting, especially when compared with other platforms. That said, I suspect that the demographics that frequent HN represent a pretty narrow slice of humanity, and like any subculture this narrow slice of humanity is subject cultural whims and various ugly forms of groupthink and gaps in perspective that any culture on Earth is. That's specifically what rubs me the wrong way about your previous comment about "civil facts-based conversation" (and framing of people on other platforms as "riff raff").

Re: How to Build a Community: Starting with “Why?”

#22

Post by corobo »

travisjungroth wrote: post #13

Maybe a bit of an aside, but community is such a weird word these days. It can represent a group of people who mostly only interact with each other (a remote mountain community) or a group of people that just have one thing in common (a data tool forum, the investment banking community). These things are different and I think it matters. You say “members of a community” and it’s easy to imagine people who live within…

Genres of music are all different too but I'm not listening to rock when I put pop on just because both of those are genres.

Re: How to Build a Community: Starting with “Why?”

#23

Post by microtherion »

bflies wrote: post #9

I searched the post for "video" and "stream". Zero. How can one build a community without video and livestreaming in 2021? Not that I like it but even hard-core tech communities, eg in the embedded space, have some video exposure. Or big discords have often some video/streaming outlet.

a) This comment seems antithetical to the post, by immediately jumping to the "How?" without ever stopping at the "Why?"

b) Video/Streaming is not for everyone. I prefer my technical discussions in text, with a few well chosen illustrations. There's nothing that makes my heart sink more than hearing "well, if you just watch this rambling, 2 hour stream of consciousness explanation, it will all become clear to you" (Worst of all, there are companies now doing this in lieu of manuals).

Re: How to Build a Community: Starting with “Why?”

#24

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

rectang wrote: post #6

The assumption that community building is an unalloyed good pervades tech, especially FOSS. I never see any analysis that concludes "building a community takes lots of work, requires skill sets that not everyone possesses in equal measure, and often can't justify the ROI". I'd like to see an article on why you should not build a community.

Hard agree, building a community takes year and you have to be constantly available. You're the one who's going to do most of the talking for the first few years so you better be more skilled than 90% of the people who join if you want them to find value in it. Can't speak on ROI, mine isn't business focused but I'll say it's a great way to meet interesting people, especially if you're not the outgoing-type because it forces you to be.

Re: How to Build a Community: Starting with “Why?”

#25

Post by kostarelo »

travisjungroth wrote: post #13

Maybe a bit of an aside, but community is such a weird word these days. It can represent a group of people who mostly only interact with each other (a remote mountain community) or a group of people that just have one thing in common (a data tool forum, the investment banking community). These things are different and I think it matters. You say “members of a community” and it’s easy to imagine people who live within…

> Are the people on the forums I frequent going to show up at my wedding, my funeral?

Really this doesn't has anything to do with the "forums". Depends on the relationships you've build on those forums. It could be that strong that they will happily come at any important event of your life, and if they can't because of physical distance, they would still be happy/sad/whatever about it.

Re: How to Build a Community: Starting with “Why?”

#26

Post by travisjungroth »

wombatmobile wrote: post #18
travisjungroth wrote: post #13

Maybe a bit of an aside, but community is such a weird word these days. It can represent a group of people who mostly only interact with each other (a remote mountain community) or a group of people that just have one thing in common (a data tool forum, the investment banking community). These things are different and I think it matters. You say “members of a community” and it’s easy to imagine people who live within…

Definitions from Oxford Languages community /kəˈmjuːnɪti/ noun 1. a group of people living in the same place or having a particular characteristic in common. "Montreal's Italian community" 2. the condition of sharing or having certain attitudes and interests in common. "the sense of community that organized religion can provide"

They're both valid definitions. My more earnest point is the trend of being less involved in more communities. And the corresponding shift in intensity from "all of your lives depend on each other and almost no one else" to "you all make money the same way".

And that shift is accelerating. Agriculture caused a big jump. The industrial revolution caused a big jump. The internet caused a big jump.

I don't think it's all bad. It's just different. My idea for the healthiest setup (covid aside) for modern work is remote in a friendly, local coworking space. That way if you change jobs, you only change half the people that you spent 9-5 with, not all of them. There's a resiliency from diversification.

Re: How to Build a Community: Starting with “Why?”

#27

Post by travisjungroth »

tasogare wrote: post #19
travisjungroth wrote: post #13

Maybe a bit of an aside, but community is such a weird word these days. It can represent a group of people who mostly only interact with each other (a remote mountain community) or a group of people that just have one thing in common (a data tool forum, the investment banking community). These things are different and I think it matters. You say “members of a community” and it’s easy to imagine people who live within…

> Are the people on the forums I frequent going to show up at my wedding, my funeral? It can happens yes. The obvious example is a couple meeting in a game like WoW, marrying and inviting their in-game friends. Or that stories of a kid with rare genetic disease who could only socialize online and got people his parents didn’t know at his funerals.

It definitely happens, it's just a matter of frequency. If your community is your village, you're almost certainly going to marry someone from your community or the greater community that includes your village next door (but maybe you travel instead!). Now those deep bonds being forged online happens, but it's not the default.

Re: How to Build a Community: Starting with “Why?”

#28

Post by travisjungroth »

xwolfi wrote: post #16
travisjungroth wrote: post #13

Maybe a bit of an aside, but community is such a weird word these days. It can represent a group of people who mostly only interact with each other (a remote mountain community) or a group of people that just have one thing in common (a data tool forum, the investment banking community). These things are different and I think it matters. You say “members of a community” and it’s easy to imagine people who live within…

I'm not sure it changed in a way that matters so much. You have 2 necessary groups you need to survive: the close mutual help group, people who will actually turn up at your funerals, wedding, help your kids if you die, shits like that. And you have the group of people you need to discuss things, change your opinion, teach you things, buy and sell to/from you. So you want to talk "before", so let's say 1850 to go far…

Thanks for your insight. I can see the similarities you're pointing out.

Re: How to Build a Community: Starting with “Why?”

#30

Post by skeeter2020 »

hoi234 wrote: post #10
rectang wrote: post #6

The assumption that community building is an unalloyed good pervades tech, especially FOSS. I never see any analysis that concludes "building a community takes lots of work, requires skill sets that not everyone possesses in equal measure, and often can't justify the ROI". I'd like to see an article on why you should not build a community.

The assumption that learning to program is an unalloyed good pervades the world, especially the USA. I never see any analysis that concludes "programming takes lots of work, requires skill sets that not everyone possesses in equal measure, and often can't justify the ROI". I'd like to see an article on why you should not learn to program.

>> I'd like to see an article on why you should not learn to program.

This abstracts to a set of unlimted topics, so essentially you're asking for justification to not learn about anything. This seems a little absurd so perhaps the question is framed incorrectly and should be "why you should not learn to program and instead learn [something else]" i.e. the basis for time/energy/focus being scarce and deciding how to allocate them for maximum utility, however you define that.

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