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A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

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Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#21

Post by jancsika »

motohagiography wrote: post #4

As someone who trained my dog to sit and wait for me outside a shop while I got coffee, which was a similar delayed gratification and I didn't even use treats, I think science might be underestimating just how stupid human children are.

To properly test, you'd need to:

1. Draw a triangle on your forehead

2. Make a shitty clone of yourself with a circle drawn on the clone's forehead, who comes out of the shop immediately after you walk in

Then see if your dog decides to follow the shitty clone, or whether it waits a couple minutes for the regular version of you.

Edit: also, repeat with many more dogs, many more dog owners, and many more shitty clones.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#22

Post by LatteLazy »

motohagiography wrote: post #4

As someone who trained my dog to sit and wait for me outside a shop while I got coffee, which was a similar delayed gratification and I didn't even use treats, I think science might be underestimating just how stupid human children are.

I mean, the dog gets nothing for sitting and waiting. He stopped getting treats once training was over. So is he smarter than the kid that wonders off or comes inside demanding cake and acting cute?

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#23

Post by mr-wendel »

8fGTBjZxBcHq wrote: post #13

The article doesn't mention this but that test is not very well regarded currently. It's basically a test of food security and trust in adults rather than any particular behavioral benchmark.

I think it's even worse than that. I hate this test because both now and as a kid I'd take the single marshmallow and just be done. I don't want two, even if you hand them to me back-to-back... let alone 15 minutes later.

I don't care if its my favorite treat either. I believed quite strongly that a little vs a lot doesn't matter: the best parts are in the anticipation, the initial bite, and enjoying the lingering aftertaste. Having more more bites to eat is a gimmick with nothing but downsides (however now I get how things like addiction can drastically alter that equation so the "more" is practically everything).

So show me a version of this test that doesn't have the assumption "all kids are greedy for food and the most successful ones will optimize for that" at its core.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#24

Post by [deleted] »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #20
yboris wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the conclusion: no one is claiming "as smart as humans". Intelligence is multidimensional, and along some dimensions animals outperform us by a long shot. Some birds remember thousands of locations of their stashed food. Some animals have a detailed internal map of many square miles of land on which they live. Pick just about anything a typical 3 year old can do, and we can find an animal to outperform the…

Sure they were; that's what the title implies. Else, why the comparison? And I'm curious if those studies of animal intelligence, actually tried a human. Could I remember thousands of place I put stuff? I think I do. I have a whole house full of stuff, and can find most of it quickly. I remember where I kept my socks in an apartment I lived in 30 years ago. So yeah no, animals maybe aren't ahead of us in cognitive fu…

[deleted]

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#25

Post by EliRivers »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #20
yboris wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the conclusion: no one is claiming "as smart as humans". Intelligence is multidimensional, and along some dimensions animals outperform us by a long shot. Some birds remember thousands of locations of their stashed food. Some animals have a detailed internal map of many square miles of land on which they live. Pick just about anything a typical 3 year old can do, and we can find an animal to outperform the…

Sure they were; that's what the title implies. Else, why the comparison? And I'm curious if those studies of animal intelligence, actually tried a human. Could I remember thousands of place I put stuff? I think I do. I have a whole house full of stuff, and can find most of it quickly. I remember where I kept my socks in an apartment I lived in 30 years ago. So yeah no, animals maybe aren't ahead of us in cognitive fu…

Animals certianly aren't ahead of us in human cognitive function, but that feels like a loaded competition. Humans do have a hard time imagining intelligence as anything other than what we have.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#26

Post by luplex »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #5
motohagiography wrote: post #4

As someone who trained my dog to sit and wait for me outside a shop while I got coffee, which was a similar delayed gratification and I didn't even use treats, I think science might be underestimating just how stupid human children are.

https://www.vox.com/2015/4/7/8360143/dogs-intelligence-scien... On the whole, psychologist and dog researcher Stanley Coren estimates, the average dog's intelligence is roughly as sophisticated as a 2.5-year-old baby's.

As a human researcher, I don't think that's a fair comparison. A 2.5-year-old human can talk in simple sentences. The experiments in that article don't really measure intelligence. Babies are just much more curious.

I think dogs are still surprisingly smart.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#27

Post by unstatusthequo »

jancsika wrote: post #21
motohagiography wrote: post #4

As someone who trained my dog to sit and wait for me outside a shop while I got coffee, which was a similar delayed gratification and I didn't even use treats, I think science might be underestimating just how stupid human children are.

To properly test, you'd need to: 1. Draw a triangle on your forehead 2. Make a shitty clone of yourself with a circle drawn on the clone's forehead, who comes out of the shop immediately after you walk in Then see if your dog decides to follow the shitty clone, or whether it waits a couple minutes for the regular version of you. Edit: also, repeat with many more dogs, many more dog owners, and many more shitty clones…

This made me laugh as a potential Rick & Morty episode

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#28

Post by emilecantin »

goodcanadian wrote: post #10
motohagiography wrote: post #4

As someone who trained my dog to sit and wait for me outside a shop while I got coffee, which was a similar delayed gratification and I didn't even use treats, I think science might be underestimating just how stupid human children are.

From the article: Some primates can delay gratification, along with dogs, albeit inconsistently. Corvids, too, have passed the marshmallow test. Having had a couple of human children, I would definitely not claim that they are anything but extremely clever, but then so are many primates, dogs, and corvids.

Yes. Children are literally little humans. They have enormous brainpower, they just lack the experience they need to use it properly.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#29

Post by bryanrasmussen »

luplex wrote: post #26
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.vox.com/2015/4/7/8360143/dogs-intelligence-scien... On the whole, psychologist and dog researcher Stanley Coren estimates, the average dog's intelligence is roughly as sophisticated as a 2.5-year-old baby's.

As a human researcher, I don't think that's a fair comparison. A 2.5-year-old human can talk in simple sentences. The experiments in that article don't really measure intelligence. Babies are just much more curious. I think dogs are still surprisingly smart.

By that argument no animal, dolphin, porpoise, dog, gorilla, elephant can be as intelligent as a 2.5 year old baby because none of them have evolved a tongue and vocal apparatus capable of making the correct sounds.

Re: A Cephalopod Has Passed a Cognitive Test Designed for Human Children

#30

Post by sparkywolf »

unstatusthequo wrote: post #27
jancsika wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To properly test, you'd need to: 1. Draw a triangle on your forehead 2. Make a shitty clone of yourself with a circle drawn on the clone's forehead, who comes out of the shop immediately after you walk in Then see if your dog decides to follow the shitty clone, or whether it waits a couple minutes for the regular version of you. Edit: also, repeat with many more dogs, many more dog owners, and many more shitty clones…

This made me laugh as a potential Rick & Morty episode

The 'dog' is Jerry. We all know it.
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