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On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

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Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#21

Post by tonyedgecombe »

carmen_sandiego wrote: post #5

As another ex-poor person: some of this is OK and some of it doesn't really ring true. E.g. > That’s the drop-off you experience at the lower price levels - there’s nothing between “This is a tiny but acceptable apartment” and “Slum apartments in stab-ville”. I don't think this is true, and why would it be? Unless you're in an area where the housing market is cliffed for some legislative or regulatory reason. But mos…

I don't think this is true, and why would it be? Unless you're in an area where the housing market is cliffed for some legislative or regulatory reason.

I have a friend who works in real estate and he tells me people in difficult circumstances pay a premium because of the risk of default and damage. The landlord needs more margin to cover those extra risks.

He also told me you could never make money at the bottom end of the market if you have middle class sensibilities. It's pretty ruthless at the bottom.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#22

Post by leoedin »

carmen_sandiego wrote: post #5

As another ex-poor person: some of this is OK and some of it doesn't really ring true. E.g. > That’s the drop-off you experience at the lower price levels - there’s nothing between “This is a tiny but acceptable apartment” and “Slum apartments in stab-ville”. I don't think this is true, and why would it be? Unless you're in an area where the housing market is cliffed for some legislative or regulatory reason. But mos…

I've seen this effect a few times with housing. When viewing either apartments or shared rooms, not being discerning enough at the advert stage has resulted in viewing some absolutely terrible places - damp, poorly heated, unmaintained, and the sense from interacting with the landlord that their MO is firmly "slumlord". The really surprising thing is that the rent demanded for these places is often not much less than the rent for a much nicer space in the same area of the city - maybe £50-£100/month.

I think when supply and demand meets minimum wage you get an incredibly non-linear effect in bang for buck. I'm sure there are exceptions (the property market definitely has a negative survivorship bias where the nice cheap properties are never on the market for very long while the terrible ones are).

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#23

Post by carmen_sandiego »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #17
carmen_sandiego wrote: post #5

As another ex-poor person: some of this is OK and some of it doesn't really ring true. E.g. > That’s the drop-off you experience at the lower price levels - there’s nothing between “This is a tiny but acceptable apartment” and “Slum apartments in stab-ville”. I don't think this is true, and why would it be? Unless you're in an area where the housing market is cliffed for some legislative or regulatory reason. But mos…

Value, not demand. A nurse who helps stop 50 people from dying each week is doing very valuable work, but a talented lawyer helping to defeat valid class-action lawsuits (negative value work) is probably paid more.

Healthcare is kind of a special case though, in that it's not really a free market (whether you think it should be or not). So the value of what medical professionals do isn't really signalled through. The lawyer has high value to the company that pays them, so they probably meet the first part exactly: rare skills in high demand.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#24

Post by yibg »

I grew up poor (first gen immigrant family, the poor kind), so I empathize with the points raised. At the same time I don't really understand how some / a family can be (outside of some circumstances like health issues, disabilities etc) repeatedly behind on water bills or other necessities.

For the first few years my family had an income of ~$1000 / month (back in the 90s). My mother wasn't legally allowed to work and my father was on a stipend. The whole family lived in a studio apartment, that 900 sq ft place in the article would've been huge for us. Our car was a $1200 tiny little rust bucket, but it ran.

Sometimes I see documentaries about people living in poverty and going pay check to pay check, yet the kids are wearing Nikes and playing on iphones. Being poor was definitely stressful though, and I'm definitely grateful that stress isn't part of my life anymore.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#25

Post by choeger »

fallingknife wrote: post #6

I'm surprised he doesn't know not to pay rent for the last month and make them use the deposit for it. That's what I always did when I was poor. No way they're gonna evict you in 30 days, especially if they know you're leaving anyway. Also his car cost is way off: https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/cheapest-lease-deals

That came to my mind as well. If I don't expect the deposit back and cannot afford to claim it, let's just turn the tables and make them claim something from me.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#26

Post by chii »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #9
deepstack wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is never about how much money you have, rather what situation you are in, what you are expecting and what others around you have.

Yep! As someone from a former socialist country, I can confirm. Situation has got a lot better in the last ~30 years, people have alot more, but since a few people got even more than that, some complain a lot. Average worker family has gone from bicicyles and maybe one yugo (or a "fico" - even smaller/cheaper) to two, maybe three european-mid-range cars + all the modern extras, but are not happy, because their neighb…

it makes some evolutionary sense tho - because objective wellbeing is only part of the competition. Relative wellbeing is what "counts" for real, esp. when competing for scarce resources.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#29

Post by mudita »

I was poor for some time after deciding to quit my computer science phd for a career in art. I guess I still am compared to others, but it does not feel that way any more. When I was really poor, worrying about money and how to pay the next rent was a regular source of stress for me, which took quite a lot of emotional energy.

Now I still have much lower income than people, who have regular well-paying jobs, but I do not feel poor. I have no savings and there are some things, which feel totally out of reach like owning a car or house, but I do not have to worry about money and I can afford a lot of luxuries like visiting theatres very often and eating out.

Regarding housing: I remember living in a tiny room in a shared flat in the worst part of town, above a brothel, a shady car dealer and a Hookah lounge (which was often very loud, very late into the night). Sometimes I had problems paying rent, but there just was no cheaper less-quality alternative.

Regarding transportation: I am so glad, that I live in a place, where you can live very comfortably without a car.

Similarly with health care. I think the US is just an especially bad place to be poor in compared to Europe.

Financially switching from computer science to art has been a very bad decision, but overall it was the best decision in my life. It really helped me deal with my tendencies for depressions, because it allows me to feel more meaning in my life and suits me better. I do not think that I would have dared this switch in the US. I don’t know what would have happened if I had lived in the states, if I would have found other ways to cope with depression or if I would have slipped into deeper and deeper depressive episodes without a way out, but I am glad that I did not have to find out.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#30

Post by telesilla »

yibg wrote: post #24

I grew up poor (first gen immigrant family, the poor kind), so I empathize with the points raised. At the same time I don't really understand how some / a family can be (outside of some circumstances like health issues, disabilities etc) repeatedly behind on water bills or other necessities. For the first few years my family had an income of ~$1000 / month (back in the 90s). My mother wasn't legally allowed to work a…

Being poor is doable as long as there are no disasters or gross unfairness. Every student who gets buy without parental help will attest.
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