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Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

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Re: Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

#21

Post by loceng »

dagmx wrote: post #12
wombatmobile wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say to hurt the dog. This is a communication, not a stressor. It is recommended by Caeser Milan.

Cesar Milan is a terrible example of dog behaviour training. Most of the dog behaviorist community dissaproves of his methods. Positive training is much more the norm these days. Cesar's techniques can create terrible feedback loops that create worse behavior long term.

Arguably what works really depends on your relationship, the trust you have or don't have yet with the dog. And we're all mostly speaking without referencing what exactly the positive or negative reenforcement methods we're even talking about, so it's a fairly shallow level of discussion missing the nuances.

Re: Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

#22

Post by amelius »

Judgmentality wrote: post #11
wombatmobile wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a horrible way to train dogs. What is horrible is the image you have in your mind of what I am saying, which is a misunderstanding.

Please don't double down. I've raised several dogs, and fostered at least a dozen throughout my life. I am regularly the "last guy" for problem dogs because nobody else knows how to handle them, and have dealt with many dogs who have attacked humans (and I have been bit many times dealing with these dogs). I saw from your other comment that you learned this from Cesar Milan. Well like most celebrities, his advice can…

> have dealt with many dogs who have attacked humans (and I have been bit many times dealing with these dogs)

As a non-dog person, may I ask how I can best deal with a dog attacking me?

Re: Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

#23

Post by atosatto »

ljw1001 wrote: post #18

Am I the only one who wonders why a dog alone needs lights turned on when it gets dark? Are we afraid canine sleep cycles aren’t as damaged as our own? Or maybe he just wants to read.

Inside the house been in the dark is not an issue for my dog. Outside he just doesn't feel safe as when he is inside and he needs to be sure there's no danger around him

Re: Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

#24

Post by juanani »

amelius wrote: post #22
Judgmentality wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't double down. I've raised several dogs, and fostered at least a dozen throughout my life. I am regularly the "last guy" for problem dogs because nobody else knows how to handle them, and have dealt with many dogs who have attacked humans (and I have been bit many times dealing with these dogs). I saw from your other comment that you learned this from Cesar Milan. Well like most celebrities, his advice can…

> have dealt with many dogs who have attacked humans (and I have been bit many times dealing with these dogs) As a non-dog person, may I ask how I can best deal with a dog attacking me?

Not OP, but never turn your back and run - to a growling dog. I was once stuck with an unfriendly pitbull in a high fenced backyard(the dog's backyard). Once it is staring and growling at you, try to slowly back out of its territory. You will definitely find it hard to take your eyes off it.

Stand your ground in full posture, get ready for it to launch at you. Dodge hard left or hard right while throwing your hands infront of you (only if you have thick sleeves), I luckily had a thick winter coat and it nibbed the sleeve as I jumped hard left (Kind of like the matadors). It recovered and got back to the low growl staring contest before launching again.

It also matters where you position yourself, after it launches their inertia takes them some time to recover which gives you time to get closer to your exit. Just a few more of these and you are on your way out of trouble.

The owner luckily came out after it's second launch at me. It launched again at our hands when I tried to shake the owners hand to show I am friendly (not a great idea once they think you aren't). He keeps telling all my friends I am afraid of dogs..

The dog was calm and peaceful when I had entered the yard, I made the mistake of pulling my hoody over my head, it did not recognize me as the same person after that. Don't change your appearance especially when on foreign territory.

Looking back, the thought of fighting it physically never crossed my mind - I got tense and recognized I shouldn't show fear or my back. Once I figured I could survive dodging side to side, it was a relief.

TLDR - Dont turn your back, get ready to dodge and move as many times as it takes, also avoid changing appearance on foreign dog territory.

Re: Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

#25

Post by amelius »

juanani wrote: post #24
amelius wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have dealt with many dogs who have attacked humans (and I have been bit many times dealing with these dogs) As a non-dog person, may I ask how I can best deal with a dog attacking me?

Not OP, but never turn your back and run - to a growling dog. I was once stuck with an unfriendly pitbull in a high fenced backyard(the dog's backyard). Once it is staring and growling at you, try to slowly back out of its territory. You will definitely find it hard to take your eyes off it. Stand your ground in full posture, get ready for it to launch at you. Dodge hard left or hard right while throwing your hands i…

Thanks. I think this kind of info should be part of self-defense classes.

By the way, I read that dogs have no muscles in their belly area, so especially sensitive/vulnerable there. Not sure what to do with that info though.

Re: Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

#26

Post by derekp7 »

dagmx wrote: post #12
wombatmobile wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say to hurt the dog. This is a communication, not a stressor. It is recommended by Caeser Milan.

Cesar Milan is a terrible example of dog behaviour training. Most of the dog behaviorist community dissaproves of his methods. Positive training is much more the norm these days. Cesar's techniques can create terrible feedback loops that create worse behavior long term.

Serious question. Humans have been dealing with domestic dogs for 10's of thousands of years, as work partners and companion animals. Obviously there should be some common methods that have been successful during that time, so why is it that every decade or so we have "new methods these days", instead of having a set of proven methods over the last few millennia (whatever those proven methods end up being)? Why does best practices with dogs seem to change quite a bit on the scale of decades?

Re: Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

#27

Post by juanani »

amelius wrote: post #25
juanani wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but never turn your back and run - to a growling dog. I was once stuck with an unfriendly pitbull in a high fenced backyard(the dog's backyard). Once it is staring and growling at you, try to slowly back out of its territory. You will definitely find it hard to take your eyes off it. Stand your ground in full posture, get ready for it to launch at you. Dodge hard left or hard right while throwing your hands i…

Thanks. I think this kind of info should be part of self-defense classes. By the way, I read that dogs have no muscles in their belly area, so especially sensitive/vulnerable there. Not sure what to do with that info though.

Great idea for a self defence class. I am an amateur in dog fights though so don't go starting fights with dogs just based on this story/method.

If I ever am unfortunate to do it again, I might try some loud, strict voice commands to try to override the attack mode(you get a few seconds of conversation between growl/stare and launch).

Re: Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

#28

Post by dagmx »

derekp7 wrote: post #26
dagmx wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cesar Milan is a terrible example of dog behaviour training. Most of the dog behaviorist community dissaproves of his methods. Positive training is much more the norm these days. Cesar's techniques can create terrible feedback loops that create worse behavior long term.

Serious question. Humans have been dealing with domestic dogs for 10's of thousands of years, as work partners and companion animals. Obviously there should be some common methods that have been successful during that time, so why is it that every decade or so we have "new methods these days", instead of having a set of proven methods over the last few millennia (whatever those proven methods end up being)? Why does…

For the same reason our understanding of human psychology changes every few decades. Our scientific observation and understanding evolves.

Just as you wouldn't commit electroshock therapy anymore for people with mental disorders, you wouldn't use shock collars today.

Or the same way we don't recommend corporal punishment for children, it's not recommended to manhandle dogs either.

Dogs respond very strongly to both negative and positive reinforcement. Negative reinforcement unfortunately has the effect of making the dog associate stress or physical abuse with conditioned events. Much in the way that a child will stop doing things out of fear, but it builds up mental scarring.

Particularly many people try and condition dogs to not bark or growl by negative reinforcement. This causes the dog to be fearful of expressing itself and go more directly to biting when stressed.

Anyway Tl;Dr science doesn't sit still.

Re: Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

#29

Post by dagmx »

loceng wrote: post #21
dagmx wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cesar Milan is a terrible example of dog behaviour training. Most of the dog behaviorist community dissaproves of his methods. Positive training is much more the norm these days. Cesar's techniques can create terrible feedback loops that create worse behavior long term.

Arguably what works really depends on your relationship, the trust you have or don't have yet with the dog. And we're all mostly speaking without referencing what exactly the positive or negative reenforcement methods we're even talking about, so it's a fairly shallow level of discussion missing the nuances.

It's not shallow because the comment specifically referenced Cesar's methods. They're very strongly negative reinforcement without much nuance.

Re: Puppy Assistant: the smart home for my dog

#30

Post by dagmx »

loceng wrote: post #20
wombatmobile wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In real life you achieve this by physically restraining the dog with your hands for 15 seconds in an unambiguous manner when it does the unwanted behaviour.

What I had to do 2 or 3 times total with my last dog when she was badly misbehaving in circumstances that simply aren't acceptable, where she wasn't wanting to listen/not calming down, was to take her, lay her on her side, put a lot of my body weight on her to gently pin her and grab her by the snout with both hands holding it down/together - while looking her in the eyes and in a slight low, slow, growly voice say "…

This is horrifyingly incorrect. Your dog is very likely to learn to bite you in the future and what you're doing is abusing your dog.

Also you reference alpha/beta behaviour which has been debunked ages ago. There is no such thing.

Your understanding of dog psychology is decades out of date. It only works because you are instilling fear in your dog. Maybe your dog won't ever snap at you, but your methods have a very high risk of creating a violent dog.

Please seek out a dog behaviorist. Your methods are not what anybody should be doing.

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