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Attenborough gives stark warning on climate change to UN [video]

bbc.com

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Re: Attenborough gives stark warning on climate change to UN [video]

#21

Post by CaptArmchair »

whatthesmack wrote: post #18
CaptArmchair wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, that's not a "might", it's pretty much a foregone conclusion. Not tomorrow, not in 5 years or even in the next decade. But not so long term, it's going to be hard to continue catering a modern day lifestyle to billions. [1] [1] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcosc.2020.6154... Not so long term would be beyond 2050. 2100 sounds like far into the future... until you realize that kids born today have f…

How many times have we survived a "the world is going to end in 12 years" trope spouted by climate apocalypse preachers? It really is a religion. The whole meme mocking voting and paying more taxes to change nature is such an accurate depiction. Climate change is unavoidable (because nature)... but so is human ingenuity. We're constantly discovering new facts and approaches, and this is the major factor doomsayers ne…

> but so is human ingenuity. We're constantly discovering new facts and approaches, and this is the major factor doomsayers never bring up in these discussions.

There's an abundance of new facts, approaches and ideas. And the vast majority of scientists and activists advocate those facts, approaches and ideas. They have been doing exactly that for the past 60 years.

Your human ingenuity counts for nothing if the only ideas that humanity is willing to accept are those which can be marketed to consumers (electric cars, solar panels) rather then those which are boring, maybe even painful to some, but absolutely necessary to sustain life on Earth (sustainable development goals per the U.N. [1])

[1] https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/sustainable-develo...

Re: Attenborough gives stark warning on climate change to UN [video]

#23

Post by CalRobert »

melomal wrote: post #5
CalRobert wrote: post #3

I think about this every hour, if not several times an hour. The cognitive dissonance between saving for retirement, expecting a stable government, and this are huge. I don't understand how every parent isn't filled with sheer, abject terror at their child's death from starvation, thirst, disease, or violence.

> I don't understand how every parent isn't filled with sheer, abject terror at their child's death from starvation, thirst, disease, or violence. Sometimes the tech community just lives in another world. In reality: work, bills, screaming kids and life get in the way of thinking about anything but yourself. When I was 21 I was the same (vegan, vegetarian, telling people about BPA, not touching receipts with my hands…

I'm 38 and have a 1 and 3 year old (we had a fit of optimism I guess), and am terrified that having them just in time for them to suffer the collapse of civilisation around them could end up being an act of cruelty.

We've moved to a location that should fare well enough, ecologically, but of course that makes it a target for hungry, thirsty, better-armed groups of people.

Re: Attenborough gives stark warning on climate change to UN [video]

#24

Post by CalRobert »

ramblerman wrote: post #12
CalRobert wrote: post #3

I think about this every hour, if not several times an hour. The cognitive dissonance between saving for retirement, expecting a stable government, and this are huge. I don't understand how every parent isn't filled with sheer, abject terror at their child's death from starvation, thirst, disease, or violence.

Walking around in pure terror is one option, but is probably more media inspired than reality based. You could also be optimistic in the face of the future. We are here because of a long line of good fortune and optimism, despite war, disease, famine. The human race has really faced some incredible odds. And technology while an accelerant for destruction could also be our liberator. Solve energy problems, get us off…

I am hoping to train them in permaculture, resourcefulness, and to be strong members their community. We'll see how that goes, they're still very young.

Re: Attenborough gives stark warning on climate change to UN [video]

#25

Post by orwin »

whatthesmack wrote: post #18
CaptArmchair wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, that's not a "might", it's pretty much a foregone conclusion. Not tomorrow, not in 5 years or even in the next decade. But not so long term, it's going to be hard to continue catering a modern day lifestyle to billions. [1] [1] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcosc.2020.6154... Not so long term would be beyond 2050. 2100 sounds like far into the future... until you realize that kids born today have f…

How many times have we survived a "the world is going to end in 12 years" trope spouted by climate apocalypse preachers? It really is a religion. The whole meme mocking voting and paying more taxes to change nature is such an accurate depiction. Climate change is unavoidable (because nature)... but so is human ingenuity. We're constantly discovering new facts and approaches, and this is the major factor doomsayers ne…

> Climate change is unavoidable (because nature)... but so is human ingenuity

For the first part: not nature, because every carbon emissions today won't have any significant effect until 2040.

For the second part: Yeah, the 2010 drought in Russia was handled so well, millions starved and we're still paying for the political instability it brought in 2011.

And the temperature differential between the troposphere (that warms up) and the stratosphere (that cools down faster than the troposphere warms btw) are becoming more predictible, so when we will have even stronger meteorological events, we might be able to warn the population and to prevent planes to go through them, nice.

And when wet-bulb temperature will be to high, we will be able to grow high-yield plants and harvest them at nigh, while sleeping underground during the day, seems ingenius enough.

Yeah, we will survive, i don't think anybody doubted that. Will the civilization stay the way it is? It won't be the bronze age collapse, but consider this: over 300 year, the Anatolia region lost between 10 and 25% of its precipitations and it almost destroyed 3 empires. Do you think we're that much politically stable?

Re: Attenborough gives stark warning on climate change to UN [video]

#26

Post by psiconaut »

ramblerman wrote: post #12
CalRobert wrote: post #3

I think about this every hour, if not several times an hour. The cognitive dissonance between saving for retirement, expecting a stable government, and this are huge. I don't understand how every parent isn't filled with sheer, abject terror at their child's death from starvation, thirst, disease, or violence.

Walking around in pure terror is one option, but is probably more media inspired than reality based. You could also be optimistic in the face of the future. We are here because of a long line of good fortune and optimism, despite war, disease, famine. The human race has really faced some incredible odds. And technology while an accelerant for destruction could also be our liberator. Solve energy problems, get us off…

this reminds me of one of my favorite quotes by deleuze: "There's no need to fear or hope, but only to look for new weapons."

I guess we can also translate as tools, given the techno-solucionist atmosphere ;)

Re: Attenborough gives stark warning on climate change to UN [video]

#27

Post by psiconaut »

CaptArmchair wrote: post #15
refurb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could get killed walking your doggie. Or get cancer. Or have a stroke. Tomorrow. Worrying about your post-apocalyptic world that might happen doesn’t consume many of my brain cycles. I’d much rather worry about things that are likely to happen in the short term. Edit: no, my child’s death from thirst, famine, violence or disease is not a forgone conclusion.

Oh, that's not a "might", it's pretty much a foregone conclusion. Not tomorrow, not in 5 years or even in the next decade. But not so long term, it's going to be hard to continue catering a modern day lifestyle to billions. [1] [1] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcosc.2020.6154... Not so long term would be beyond 2050. 2100 sounds like far into the future... until you realize that kids born today have f…

> about is how little action is taken even today to change that future

mainly because of the future discount rate, which is something I'd like to see more commonly discussed.

Related to this: I'm recommending a lot KSR's "the ministry for the future" to all my friends nowadays. It has a very good picture of "how it works, and why we don't care". I kind of like how he makes the point that all those powerful forces are mainly human rules, and as such, they can be changed... with powerful enough incentives.

Re: Attenborough gives stark warning on climate change to UN [video]

#28

Post by refurb »

Oletros wrote: post #20
refurb wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link is about a new route through ice. Not relevant to an ice free arctic.

And your article is about ice free summers. But I think you didn't even read the article you linked

Of course. We haven’t had an ice free summer. That’s my point?

Re: Attenborough gives stark warning on climate change to UN [video]

#29

Post by refurb »

Oletros wrote: post #10
refurb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were supposed to have an ice-free artic year around by now, but here we are. Not sure I’d put much weight on the worst case scenarios. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/sep/17/arctic-c...

Are you aware that he is talking about summer?

Yes, and his prediction was still incredibly wrong.
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