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Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

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Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#21

Post by ljlolel »

bryanh wrote: post #18
51Cards wrote: post #17

I am going to make this comment and it might be unpopular but it is definitely not meant to be a slag against iOS. I am noticing that a lot of the new iOS features are "missing features" from other mobile OSs... and since I'm really only familiar with iOS and Android so I can only compare those but a short list: - centralized notification tray - OTA activation - OTA synching - OTA updates - optimized updates - remind…

You are right, but this is exactly how Apple works. Start with very few features and polish to a pristine sheen. Then add new features and proclaim the world is changing. It certainly has been working for them, and generally, isn't that the type of product development advice anyone in HN would give you? Start simple, polish and iterate.

I would not say that this is "how apple works."

Apple innovates very well. The iPhone won not because it had an abstract "pristine sheen", it was just a better phone that innovated in the right ways:

Maps worked great, Safari was a full browser in the phone, and other features. It's software keyboard worked well and enabled a large screen for capacitive touch and multimedia. iPhone 1 had a plentitude of new features.

iOS 5 isn't innovating. iOS 5 is copying. I wouldn't be surprised if iPhone 6 has a hardware back button like android.

The iPad still innovates, and hopefully Apple has a cool new product around the corner.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#22

Post by msbarnett »

ben1040 wrote: post #3

I wonder what the fallout from folks like Instapaper and Tap Tap Tap will be. It seems kind of shady for Apple to say Tap Tap Tap's Camera+ couldn't have volume button as a shutter (because it was a UX rule violation), then six months later implement that feature right into iOS.

So what's the solution here? To me the outcry over this seems pretty contradictory given the general antipathy around here towards software patents.

Either ideas are something that an individual can own and control and others are forbidden to use without permission, or everybody is free to implement them and innovate around them.

Is Marco going to have to do some work now to differentiate himself from Reading List? Totally. But is that a bad thing? He was no more entitled to a competition-free perpetual business model than the Record Labels or Movie Studios or Banking Industry or any other perennial target around here.

Marco is a smart and skilled guy and there's no way this is going to kill him off unless he willingly lets it.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#23

Post by MatthewPhillips »

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #5
ben1040 wrote: post #3

I wonder what the fallout from folks like Instapaper and Tap Tap Tap will be. It seems kind of shady for Apple to say Tap Tap Tap's Camera+ couldn't have volume button as a shutter (because it was a UX rule violation), then six months later implement that feature right into iOS.

Welcome to development on a closed system and platform (iOS). Sure, it has its fair share of advantages, but then you also have to deal with shenanigans like this.

Being closed isn't relevant here. If Ubuntu built this feature into the OS the same thing would happen to 3rd parties.

The lesson is about hitching your wagon to one platform. Marco has been an outspoken "iOS only" developer and part of me wants to see him eat crow for taking that position. But that's not fair, at the end of the day he's a smart guy and he'll either adjust or come up with another killer idea. He made the smart play at the right time, but all good things come to an end.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#24

Post by rimantas »

ljlolel wrote: post #11

EDIT: who would downvote this? (I'm saying that iOS 5 is nice, but it's mostly just adding features that directly copy its competitor Android, and not even all of them. Android had been copying in 2009-2010, but now it's Apple. A lot of people, even devs, don't realize that Droid has had all these features for months. I hadn't.) I have an iPhone 4, I've had iPhones for 4 years. I love the iPhone. I tried a Nexus S wi…

The subtle (and not so subtle to others) difference is that iOS will have these features polished. Android just has them.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#25

Post by rimantas »

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #5
ben1040 wrote: post #3

I wonder what the fallout from folks like Instapaper and Tap Tap Tap will be. It seems kind of shady for Apple to say Tap Tap Tap's Camera+ couldn't have volume button as a shutter (because it was a UX rule violation), then six months later implement that feature right into iOS.

Welcome to development on a closed system and platform (iOS). Sure, it has its fair share of advantages, but then you also have to deal with shenanigans like this.

How much wait till some open platform pays $2.5 billion to developers?

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#26

Post by steveb »

Apple is trying to build a massive moat around their iOS/OSX ecosystem. If they can execute, it will be difficult for competitors to convert iOS users to other platforms.

  -Applications synced across multiple devices
  -music, photos, calendars, apps in iCloud (including your ripped content)
  -Integration with iTouch/iPad/iPhone docks and accessories
  -iMessage/Facetime lock in for user accounts
  -Gamecenter achievements
  -OSX integration and "feel" 
  -Reduce the need for a PC with wireless updates and sync (probably 75% of iOS users are on Windows)
The average user will have to face the prospect of changing out a lot of their software as they become more integrated into Apple's ecosystem.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#27

Post by jamesaguilar »

ljlolel wrote: post #21
bryanh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, but this is exactly how Apple works. Start with very few features and polish to a pristine sheen. Then add new features and proclaim the world is changing. It certainly has been working for them, and generally, isn't that the type of product development advice anyone in HN would give you? Start simple, polish and iterate.

I would not say that this is "how apple works." Apple innovates very well. The iPhone won not because it had an abstract "pristine sheen", it was just a better phone that innovated in the right ways: Maps worked great, Safari was a full browser in the phone, and other features. It's software keyboard worked well and enabled a large screen for capacitive touch and multimedia. iPhone 1 had a plentitude of new features.…

I really doubt we'll see a hardware back button on iOS. That is a misfeature of Android because of its inconsistent behavior -- if you came to one activity from an activity in another app, how do you go to the parent view in the current app? The back button takes you to the activity from which you came, not to the parent view. I think most iOS users are fine with how back works in iOS; personally I would be very much against Apple adding another hardware button of any kind except maybe a camera button.

I agree that a lot of Apple's advantage came from innovating. But a lot of the advantage also comes from taking features that other devices have done and doing them better. For example, Android does not show collated notifications on the home screen by default, and you can't interact with notifications without unlocking the screen and pulling down. iPhone's proposed implementation looks a lot better than what Android has. This happened with copy and paste too, and Android still has not caught up (no universal method for copy-and-paste).

I don't care if Apple copies or innovates. What I care about is that iPhone is still (and after this next release, will to an even greater extent be) the best phone money can buy. How it got that way is immaterial to most of their potential customers.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#29

Post by grandalf »

ljlolel wrote: post #11

EDIT: who would downvote this? (I'm saying that iOS 5 is nice, but it's mostly just adding features that directly copy its competitor Android, and not even all of them. Android had been copying in 2009-2010, but now it's Apple. A lot of people, even devs, don't realize that Droid has had all these features for months. I hadn't.) I have an iPhone 4, I've had iPhones for 4 years. I love the iPhone. I tried a Nexus S wi…

Android is nice if you're OK with 2 hour battery life. Android is OK if you like trusting Samsung with your phone's UI design. Android is fine if you want to choose from 1% of the number of apps available for iPhone.

A friend of mine designs phones for Motorola. He's angry as hell about the Android ecosystem b/c he knows there is some great hardware being built, but it's compromised by greedy companies that ship the phone with a 2 hour battery, etc. Android is full of this sort of short-term thinking.

These are all more salient features than the few areas where Android is actually better (google apps integration, turn by turn navigation).

The notification feature isn't all that necessary. I turned off all notifications on my iPhone and haven't missed anything. Most of the notifications generated by Android apps are equally useless. It's as if we're arguing about the color of Microsoft Bob's glasses.

In terms of the overall customer experience, usability, and app ecosystem, IOS is several years ahead of Android. I say this as someone who got two Android phones free at Google IO last year and still switched to an iPhone 4. It's not about checking off a box on a feature checklist, it's about the quality of the experience of using the features.

Re: Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

#30

Post by nuclear_eclipse »

grandalf wrote: post #29
ljlolel wrote: post #11

EDIT: who would downvote this? (I'm saying that iOS 5 is nice, but it's mostly just adding features that directly copy its competitor Android, and not even all of them. Android had been copying in 2009-2010, but now it's Apple. A lot of people, even devs, don't realize that Droid has had all these features for months. I hadn't.) I have an iPhone 4, I've had iPhones for 4 years. I love the iPhone. I tried a Nexus S wi…

Android is nice if you're OK with 2 hour battery life. Android is OK if you like trusting Samsung with your phone's UI design. Android is fine if you want to choose from 1% of the number of apps available for iPhone. A friend of mine designs phones for Motorola. He's angry as hell about the Android ecosystem b/c he knows there is some great hardware being built, but it's compromised by greedy companies that ship the…

> Android is nice if you're OK with 2 hour battery life.

I get an entire day's battery life out of my Nexus S, and I listen to Pandora and podcasts my entire 8 hour shift every single day, as well as play games, surf the net, and use it heavily for on-the-go text communications.

> Android is OK if you like trusting Samsung with your phone's UI design.

I have a Samsung phone and don't have any of their customized phone UI. My wife has an HTC phone (Nexus One) that also doesn't have any customized UI. Buying a phone with a customized UI is yet another choice that the consumer can make, but it's not even close to being the only way.

> Android is fine if you want to choose from 1% of the number of apps available for iPhone.

It looks a bit closer to 50%, and growing fast...

http://samsungdigital.co.cc/android-market-surpassed-the-app...

Please stop spreading obvious FUD.

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