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Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

khanacademy.org

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Re: Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

#21

Post by jedimastert »

samzer wrote: post #15
m4tthumphrey wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of any original Pixar stories that were "not good at all". Brave is probably the only one I might put close to that category. Which ones would you include? Edit: Added "original"; some of the sequels are not great

I guess it's subjective. I found brave quite decent and there were some moving moments. Worst for me would be Cars 2 and in the context of general films, it's still okay.

> Worst for me would be Cars 2

TBH I keep forgetting that movie exists. It was such a weird moment for them.

Re: Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

#22

Post by mkl »

kinghtown wrote: post #14
superbcarrot wrote: post #2

What people don't realise about Pixar is how much iteration goes into their stories - they're very comfortable with taking some idea and working on it from different angles until it's good. And there's a process there that can be taught. I think that's contrary to the way some people imagine storytelling - it's almost never the case that some creative person has a brilliant story come out perfect in the first draft.…

I feel that Pixar’s mastery of storytelling is overrated. Coco was lovely but I find their movies to be needlessly sad and curiously episodic in form. In “UP”, each sequence was very well crafted but they fit together randomly as though each scene was brainstormed by a group. They lack a singular vision in their films, there are no auteurs at Pixar: just art by committee. This isn’t to say that their stories are bad,…

I think The Incredibles has singular vision. I get what you are talking about though.

Re: Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

#23

Post by pitt1980 »

kinghtown wrote: post #14
superbcarrot wrote: post #2

What people don't realise about Pixar is how much iteration goes into their stories - they're very comfortable with taking some idea and working on it from different angles until it's good. And there's a process there that can be taught. I think that's contrary to the way some people imagine storytelling - it's almost never the case that some creative person has a brilliant story come out perfect in the first draft.…

I feel that Pixar’s mastery of storytelling is overrated. Coco was lovely but I find their movies to be needlessly sad and curiously episodic in form. In “UP”, each sequence was very well crafted but they fit together randomly as though each scene was brainstormed by a group. They lack a singular vision in their films, there are no auteurs at Pixar: just art by committee. This isn’t to say that their stories are bad,…

fwiw, ‘Storytelling’ is just one node of the larger ‘Pixar in a Box’ offering from Khan Academy.

Most of the other nodes are more technical in nature. Might be closer to what you were hoping to find.

https://www.khanacademy.org/computing/pixar

Re: Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

#24

Post by Closi »

wegs wrote: post #11
jerome-jh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK edited :) To summarize my mind, I think the only american animated movie that's worth saving in the last 10 years is Disney's Frozen. It has some harshness, complex character relationships and appeals both to adults and children.

Frozen teaches kids all the wrong lessons. Shirk your responsibilities. Ignore your community. Focus on yourself. "Let it Go" is like an ode to everything I dislike about American culture. It's so very American. Best animated movie I've seen in the past decade was probably Moana, but I can't say I've seen many.

Well, actually the moral of Frozen is the absolute opposite - by shirking her responsibilities the community suffered, and she had to go back and face reality to restore the kingdom. The moral of the story was 'running away is not the answer'.

"Let it go" as a song needs to be considered along with it's reprise:

Elsa: "I'm such a fool, I can't be free. I can't escape from the storm inside of me... I can't control the curse! Oh I'm afraid I'll only make it worse. There's so much fear - you're not safe here, i.... i.... can't...."

It's the same underlying moral story as the Lion King - Simba runs away and starts living the easy life, only for the community he left behind to suffer, and he has to become brave and face his responsibilities. The song "Let it go" is basically just "Hakuna Matata" from a story perspective. Is Hakuna Matata an ode to everything you dislike about American culture too? (Also the underlying story of Frozen is actually Danish)

Re: Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

#25

Post by jerome-jh »

wegs wrote: post #11
jerome-jh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK edited :) To summarize my mind, I think the only american animated movie that's worth saving in the last 10 years is Disney's Frozen. It has some harshness, complex character relationships and appeals both to adults and children.

Frozen teaches kids all the wrong lessons. Shirk your responsibilities. Ignore your community. Focus on yourself. "Let it Go" is like an ode to everything I dislike about American culture. It's so very American. Best animated movie I've seen in the past decade was probably Moana, but I can't say I've seen many.

"Let it go" is pretty early in the movie, that's not the conclusion. To the contrary at the end Kristoff turns its steps to help stop a feminicide.

Re: Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

#26

Post by klmadfejno »

kinghtown wrote: post #14
superbcarrot wrote: post #2

What people don't realise about Pixar is how much iteration goes into their stories - they're very comfortable with taking some idea and working on it from different angles until it's good. And there's a process there that can be taught. I think that's contrary to the way some people imagine storytelling - it's almost never the case that some creative person has a brilliant story come out perfect in the first draft.…

I feel that Pixar’s mastery of storytelling is overrated. Coco was lovely but I find their movies to be needlessly sad and curiously episodic in form. In “UP”, each sequence was very well crafted but they fit together randomly as though each scene was brainstormed by a group. They lack a singular vision in their films, there are no auteurs at Pixar: just art by committee. This isn’t to say that their stories are bad,…

Hmm, no I disagree strongly. I quite like Pixar's stories. In particular I appreciate how differently they come off to adults vs. children in ways that feel meaningful to both. As a kid, I completely missed what were obviously concerns of Mr. Incredible's infidelity. In the emotions one, kids see the obvious narrative that the emotions control the child, whereas adults are likely to see the emotions as a metaphor for feelings and growth rather than zany cartoon accidents.

Up's primary theme was the importance of letting go of the past to focus on the future. Soul was that you don't have a divinely foretold purpose in life other than living your best life. Inside out was about recognizing the importance of negative emotions- and that while joy is good, sadness is not bad. A lot of these are heavier and more mature than you'll find in a randomly chosen piece of fiction intended for adults, but I wouldn't say they're sad so much as thought provoking.

Some of it is really bleak. I mean, a fair bit of soul is a guy realizing he wasted his life, and then died right before doing the thing he thought would give his life meaning. But like... Grappling with that feels like a really meaningful conversation to have.

edit: although I don't feel as strongly for their sequels. To some extent I find they phone some of them in...

Re: Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

#27

Post by jerome-jh »

KineticLensman wrote: post #9
jerome-jh wrote: post #4

I suppose "art" is meant as "technique" here. Modern large productions are so standardized today it is not an uncommon feeling one is watching the same movie ever end ever. I think the last Pixar movie that was worth is "Up" (OK I have not seen them all). My main grief is that surprise is only obtained with a combination of visual effects, fast rhythm and loud sounds, and no more with the story. Relationships between…

> My main grief is that surprise is only obtained with a combination of visual effects, fast rhythm and loud sounds It would be interesting to see a Pixar take on Stalker, a famously slow film, discussed just recently [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26126004

> Stalker

Sounds like I'll have to watch it ... someday. With young kids you are pretty much limited in terms of what can be watched. Maybe one of the reason I am so angry about american animation I find so shallow ;)

Re: Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

#28

Post by kop316 »

jedimastert wrote: post #21
samzer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's subjective. I found brave quite decent and there were some moving moments. Worst for me would be Cars 2 and in the context of general films, it's still okay.

> Worst for me would be Cars 2 TBH I keep forgetting that movie exists. It was such a weird moment for them.

I may have to rewatch it, but I recall that movie being fairly entertaining, even as an adult.

I also will say I went to watch it without having seen the original Cars, so perhaps I really had no expectations for the film (other than it was a Pixar film)?

Re: Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

#29

Post by NikolaNovak »

kinghtown wrote: post #14
superbcarrot wrote: post #2

What people don't realise about Pixar is how much iteration goes into their stories - they're very comfortable with taking some idea and working on it from different angles until it's good. And there's a process there that can be taught. I think that's contrary to the way some people imagine storytelling - it's almost never the case that some creative person has a brilliant story come out perfect in the first draft.…

I feel that Pixar’s mastery of storytelling is overrated. Coco was lovely but I find their movies to be needlessly sad and curiously episodic in form. In “UP”, each sequence was very well crafted but they fit together randomly as though each scene was brainstormed by a group. They lack a singular vision in their films, there are no auteurs at Pixar: just art by committee. This isn’t to say that their stories are bad,…

Interesting; I feel it depends on the movie - they have a large portfolio now so some sort of averaging is inevitable.

I feel e.g. Cars franchise has limited vision. They're "allright", but not spectacular. I'm OK never seeing any of them again, even the first one.

On the other hand, I find Monsters Inc. a unique movie with a unique premise, and I can rewatch it regularly - with or without the kids 0:-). I also don't find it particularly sad. Inside out does indeed have a large dose of melancholy, but again I feel is a unique idea taken quite far without dilution.

(there are absolutely movies that are way more avant garde or quirky or surreal or even "creative" inasmuch as that can be objectively compared - but Pixar has two distinct audiences to cater to and they HAVE to be entertaining and attention-occupying to children; while inserting content that also keeps adults interested and even thoughtful - that's a specific set of constraints that e.g. "Love Death + Robots" does not have)

And if we look at their entire portfolio, the Pixar Shorts again have some absolutely brilliant, touching, "single idea executed to perfection" entries.

Re: Pixar in a Box: the art of storytelling

#30

Post by kop316 »

klmadfejno wrote: post #26
kinghtown wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that Pixar’s mastery of storytelling is overrated. Coco was lovely but I find their movies to be needlessly sad and curiously episodic in form. In “UP”, each sequence was very well crafted but they fit together randomly as though each scene was brainstormed by a group. They lack a singular vision in their films, there are no auteurs at Pixar: just art by committee. This isn’t to say that their stories are bad,…

Hmm, no I disagree strongly. I quite like Pixar's stories. In particular I appreciate how differently they come off to adults vs. children in ways that feel meaningful to both. As a kid, I completely missed what were obviously concerns of Mr. Incredible's infidelity. In the emotions one, kids see the obvious narrative that the emotions control the child, whereas adults are likely to see the emotions as a metaphor for…

Recently I have been watching a bunch of pixar movies that have been blockbusters, but I really haven't seen before. I like their themes and story telling, but something that bothers me for their major pictures is it feels like they all follow a very similar overall narrative:

- some sort of "buddy" movie

- some sort of "we only have x amount of time to solve our crisis we got into"

- the two buddies have some sort of big fight

- the two buddies make up

- stronger than ever, they overcome this crisis right just before the buzzer.

Maybe its because they don't do it in their shorts (or its because they can explore ideas more), but I think their shorts they have are really some of their best story telling.

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