Live data from Hacker News

Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

ercot.com

21–30 of 597 posts

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#21
post #8

It is kind of weird and worrisome that such a large entity doesn't use https Look at the weird error message... https://www.ercot.com/ The rest of the site appears to be http only What's funny is that they do have a valid certificate for their error message page.

Encryption uses too much power

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#22
ERCOT is the only energy market not to have a capacity market. Combine this with a large dependency on wind(unreliable) and you see problems.

This is not the first time has happened. Summer of 2019 saw a heat wave with no wind that lasted a week. Energy prices were way up.

https://cpowerenergymanagement.com/why-doesnt-texas-have-a-c...

Ps - I just checked the prices for northern Hub - day ahead was over $6,500 and real time around $4,500 per MW for 8pm.

Last Sunday both prices were around $25.

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#23

It frustrates me how most analysis of wind and solar cost-effectiveness fail to take into account the need to have tons of backup infrastructure that lays fallow most of the time. You need to decide between poor grid reliability or drastically increased capital expenditures. Hopefully storage tech will get better and this will cease to be such a problem.

"...lays fallow most of the time."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-02/tesla-battery-expande...

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#24

It frustrates me how most analysis of wind and solar cost-effectiveness fail to take into account the need to have tons of backup infrastructure that lays fallow most of the time. You need to decide between poor grid reliability or drastically increased capital expenditures. Hopefully storage tech will get better and this will cease to be such a problem.

> "Natural gas rose to a record $600 per million British thermal units in Oklahoma. And as much as half a million barrels a day of oil output in West Texas may be impacted by well shutdowns that began on Thursday because of the extreme cold."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-14/deep-free...

Energy planners didn't account for extreme weather, regardless of source.

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#25

Some time ago, I worked for a defunct energy company that provided demand-side relief in exactly this scenario - when total system load outstrips total system capacity, we'd begin taking actions on behalf of end users, not the utility. Lights would turn off, generators would spin up, fridge temperatures would be raised. ERCOT (Texas) is an interesting case in that it can't import power from other states as easily - i…

Preface: I know very little about power grids, but had a couple thoughts.

In the UK, there is a system of load shedding that is tied to the grid frequency. My understanding is that some industrial users agree terms where they get cheaper rates but if the demand outstrips supply, they are first to be cut. This load shedding is implemented by components that monitor the grid frequency, and if it drops below a fixed value, it disconnects. It seemed a nice system to me as in theory it operates just based on the principles of an AC power supply.

Secondly, the UK has its own grid but is linked up to the EU grid with asynchronous HVDC connectors. We get a lot of our energy though those. Is this inefficient?

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#26

Seems like this is where a generator and appropriate hookup for powering (primarily?) a gas furnace might not be a terrible thing. Unfortunately almost all homes regardless of source will lose heat if the power goes out because of fans and furnace control.

You could conceptually also use something like Modern Electron's meta-material thermionic electric generator that just used a home's natural gas flame to make (lots of) electricity.

https://modernelectron.com/technology/

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#27
post #23

It frustrates me how most analysis of wind and solar cost-effectiveness fail to take into account the need to have tons of backup infrastructure that lays fallow most of the time. You need to decide between poor grid reliability or drastically increased capital expenditures. Hopefully storage tech will get better and this will cease to be such a problem.

"...lays fallow most of the time." https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-02/tesla-battery-expande...

Batteries solve a different problem. They can smooth over daily shortfalls, but aren't so great when you have a week-long aberration. To fix that, you need significant overprovisioning or alternate means of generation.

That is, if you depend upon wind and wind is screwed up for a week... batteries aren't going to let you stretch limited solar all night long.

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#28
post #23

It frustrates me how most analysis of wind and solar cost-effectiveness fail to take into account the need to have tons of backup infrastructure that lays fallow most of the time. You need to decide between poor grid reliability or drastically increased capital expenditures. Hopefully storage tech will get better and this will cease to be such a problem.

"...lays fallow most of the time." https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-02/tesla-battery-expande...

This battery is exactly the kind of backup infrastructure the parent was saying we need to account for, and and, to my sibling comment's point, an obvious submarine marketing blurb lazily "reported" by a news outlet.

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#29

It frustrates me how most analysis of wind and solar cost-effectiveness fail to take into account the need to have tons of backup infrastructure that lays fallow most of the time. You need to decide between poor grid reliability or drastically increased capital expenditures. Hopefully storage tech will get better and this will cease to be such a problem.

> "Natural gas rose to a record $600 per million British thermal units in Oklahoma. And as much as half a million barrels a day of oil output in West Texas may be impacted by well shutdowns that began on Thursday because of the extreme cold ." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-14/deep-free... Energy planners didn't account for extreme weather, regardless of source.

They do, but they are planning on the common experience of extremes.

Texas' weather is colder now than in the past 40 years.

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#30

Some time ago, I worked for a defunct energy company that provided demand-side relief in exactly this scenario - when total system load outstrips total system capacity, we'd begin taking actions on behalf of end users, not the utility. Lights would turn off, generators would spin up, fridge temperatures would be raised. ERCOT (Texas) is an interesting case in that it can't import power from other states as easily - i…

Preface: I know very little about power grids, but had a couple thoughts. In the UK, there is a system of load shedding that is tied to the grid frequency. My understanding is that some industrial users agree terms where they get cheaper rates but if the demand outstrips supply, they are first to be cut. This load shedding is implemented by components that monitor the grid frequency, and if it drops below a fixed val…

No, not really. As far as I'm aware HVDC links are more efficient than AC links (even with AC/DC/AC conversion).
Post reply on HN