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An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

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Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#21

Post by JoeyBananas »

nimbius wrote: post #9

This wasnt very surprising when it happened as historically The united states is its own worst enemy when it comes to military counterintelligence assessments. Id surmise no general wants to openly admit to the enemies asymmetric advantage. Francis Gary Powers was no doubt stunned to find his U2 spyplane tumbling from the skies in 1960 thanks to what I can only imagine is inherent bias in the war room against the ene…

What exactly does this incident have to do with counterintelligence? I think you are using that word incorrectly. I also don't understand what those linked incidents have in common. Sure, the US military isn't invulnerable and there is always risk associated with combat.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#22

Post by effie »

hellotomyrars wrote: post #11
effie wrote: post #5

It is so weird that men in army are willing to go and kill each other and later behave as friends "because they have a shared experience". Is it a coping mechanism to help oneself' conscience? Or maybe just an example that we really are just machines following the program of the day?

They had the same experience. They didn’t choose to fight each other as a matter of specificity, they chose to serve their country. Soldiers are effectively tools of a nation and most of them understand that. They were both doing their jobs and why should they take it personally? They both came out the other side and if their roles had been reversed they would have done the same thing.

Yeah I get that point of view, "I'm here just following orders, no hard feelings". And that is part of what is weird to me in these stories from wars, that people are so malleable and empty and later talk big about respecting the other side. Well respect them and don't bomb/shoot missiles at them then. Also, the article sounds very artistic and fake, I'm not totally buying it.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#23

Post by MarkusWandel »

Worldwide, the sort of divisions where one's own side is all good and the other side is unspeakably evil, are on the upswing again. Having lived through a full cycle of this (old style cold war/thaw/current situation) I try to remind people that we're all humans, and about 99% everywhere have the same instincts to survive and get along. Not everyone listens.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#24

Post by toephu2 »

pastrami_panda wrote: post #7

For those curious (the article doesn't address it) it was the bomb hatch that momentarily gave away the planes position. I'm curious as to how such a huge oversight in the design of the craft made it to production, since it's widely known that 90 degree angles is a surefire way to get instantly detected on radar.

> I'm curious as to how such a huge oversight in the design of the craft made it to production

Do you work in military aircraft production? (just curious of your background)

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#25

Post by cheschire »

aerosmile wrote: post #17

There is so much gold in here. The human race would do well to explore how it's possible to turn hatred into love. It clearly happened here, and I've witnessed it on a smaller scale as a 16 year old in Vienna. As an immigrant, it was easy to find yourself in the wrong place at a wrong time. That finally happened one night, and the only thing that saved me was seeing a sign on one of the guys' jackets that belonged to…

I don’t believe war requires hatred, no more than sport. Some people wind up in war through machinations that have nothing to do with even the acknowledgment of the enemy’s existence.

Go here, wait there, if your life is in danger, return the danger back at them.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#27

Post by pluto9 »

effie wrote: post #5

It is so weird that men in army are willing to go and kill each other and later behave as friends "because they have a shared experience". Is it a coping mechanism to help oneself' conscience? Or maybe just an example that we really are just machines following the program of the day?

It's not weird at all. Soldiers on opposite sides have a lot in common, just as you might have a lot in common with someone of your profession from a different country. Their conflict is that of their respective countries, or they may think they're serving a good cause. But in either case, it's not personal.

It's also a mistake to think that every time a soldier shows an ounce of humanity, they're only doing it to "help their conscience". Soldiers are usually not the tortured individuals Hollywood portrays them to be. Why should these two men's consciences bother them? NATO troops thought they were defending the oppressed, and Serbian troops thought they were defending their sovereignty.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#28

Post by pastrami_panda »

toephu2 wrote: post #24
pastrami_panda wrote: post #7

For those curious (the article doesn't address it) it was the bomb hatch that momentarily gave away the planes position. I'm curious as to how such a huge oversight in the design of the craft made it to production, since it's widely known that 90 degree angles is a surefire way to get instantly detected on radar.

> I'm curious as to how such a huge oversight in the design of the craft made it to production Do you work in military aircraft production? (just curious of your background)

Sorry I realize I came off very rude, it was not my intention. When I learned about this hatch and saw the pictures I was just so surprised since it seems the design could be improved to reduce the radar signature significantly by using the standard practices they use for the rest of the craft. Just curious if this was an oversight or what the motivations behind the design were.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#29

Post by cassepipe »

effie wrote: post #22
hellotomyrars wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had the same experience. They didn’t choose to fight each other as a matter of specificity, they chose to serve their country. Soldiers are effectively tools of a nation and most of them understand that. They were both doing their jobs and why should they take it personally? They both came out the other side and if their roles had been reversed they would have done the same thing.

Yeah I get that point of view, "I'm here just following orders, no hard feelings". And that is part of what is weird to me in these stories from wars, that people are so malleable and empty and later talk big about respecting the other side. Well respect them and don't bomb/shoot missiles at them then. Also, the article sounds very artistic and fake, I'm not totally buying it.

Can't agree more. "Just doing my job" is a pretty shallow justification for killing another person on vague grounds of "defend my country". Even more so when flying an airplane and just dropping bombs all over the fucking place.

Re: An F-117 pilot and the officer who shot him down meet, 15 years later (2013)

#30

Post by marcodiego »

Air forces of the world seem to have their own more strict code of honor, moral or mutual respect. Hermann Goering is known to have enjoyed some hospitality after surrendering[1]. Also Franz Stigler escorted a badly damaged US bomber to safety[2].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnX5HXbRbcA

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Brown_and_Franz_Stigle...

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