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When will Google kill Stadia?

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Re: When will Google kill Stadia?

#21

Post by nickthemagicman »

brundolf wrote: post #19
nickthemagicman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, I've never noticed any significant latency playing multiplayer with friends. It's seamless on a 150 meg connection. Starlink has a 40 ms latency and that literally goes to SPACE and back THEN ALSO goes through all of the network routing issues that you're talking about. So you may be overselling the latency problem. You may have other issues going on? I don't know why you're getting 500 millisecond delay…

What I'm saying is that you must be one of the lucky ones who has a low-latency connection (Whether or not you're playing multiplayer isn't really relevant, because those other people are talking to the datacenter, not your local client) > You may have other issues going on? I don't know why you're getting 500 millisecond delays. I'm certainly not getting that. I haven't personally tried Stadia, and 500ms wasn't inte…

Starlink has a 40 millisecond latency and it goes to space and back and then it goes through all of the additional routing issues you're talking about.

So I think you may be over estimating how much latency is inherent in the network.

It may not be that I have a low latency connection...maybe you have an exceptionally high latency connection.

Maybe your apartment building has issues with the wiring?

You should really call your landlord. You're really missing out on how cool Stadia is.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsi...

Re: When will Google kill Stadia?

#22

Post by issamehh »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #21
brundolf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I'm saying is that you must be one of the lucky ones who has a low-latency connection (Whether or not you're playing multiplayer isn't really relevant, because those other people are talking to the datacenter, not your local client) > You may have other issues going on? I don't know why you're getting 500 millisecond delays. I'm certainly not getting that. I haven't personally tried Stadia, and 500ms wasn't inte…

Starlink has a 40 millisecond latency and it goes to space and back and then it goes through all of the additional routing issues you're talking about. So I think you may be over estimating how much latency is inherent in the network. It may not be that I have a low latency connection...maybe you have an exceptionally high latency connection. Maybe your apartment building has issues with the wiring? You should really…

In some cases Starlink can actually have less latency than wired connections. It's not so clear cut. Also not every internet problem is solved by calling the landlord. In fact, mine has basically nothing to do with my internet in the first place.

Re: When will Google kill Stadia?

#23

Post by jhbadger »

brundolf wrote: post #12
nickthemagicman wrote: post #5

I've used Stadia on a 150ish Mb connection and it runs as fast as the game does locally. I multiplay borderlands 3 with friends and very rarely have issues. If there's speed issues, what Stadia seems to do is lower the resolution being transmitted, in order to maintain speed and low latency. So the worst is some very rare periods of minor lower resolution adjustment for a few seconds then it turns back to normal. It'…

The issue isn't bandwidth; Netflix can stream HD video over a 5Mbps connection, and Stadia should require about the same bandwidth as video streaming because that's essentially what it's doing (and sending input signals back the other direction, but those should be negligible) What's much harder is latency. Who cares if your interactions with Netflix have a 500ms delay? For a video game, even 50ms is a problem. And y…

"For a video game, even 50ms is a problem" -- that rather depends on what kind of video game. For a first person shooter, yes. For a role playing or adventure game, not really.

Re: When will Google kill Stadia?

#24

Post by brundolf »

jhbadger wrote: post #23
brundolf wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue isn't bandwidth; Netflix can stream HD video over a 5Mbps connection, and Stadia should require about the same bandwidth as video streaming because that's essentially what it's doing (and sending input signals back the other direction, but those should be negligible) What's much harder is latency. Who cares if your interactions with Netflix have a 500ms delay? For a video game, even 50ms is a problem. And y…

"For a video game, even 50ms is a problem" -- that rather depends on what kind of video game. For a first person shooter, yes. For a role playing or adventure game, not really.

Anything with real-time continuous motion is going to feel fairly uncomfortable with that kind of latency, which includes the great majority of AAA games, including most roleplaying and adventure games

Re: When will Google kill Stadia?

#25

Post by tmpz22 »

fruzz wrote: post #10
Jkvngt wrote: post #8

Stadia’s terribly laggy. Also hardware is cheap, why wouldn’t I just run it all myself? Just yet another attempt to get people renting instead of owning.

What's considered cheap is relative. $12 a month is more accessible than lump sums of $500. It may be cheaper to have your own hardware in the long run, but not everyone is able to afford seeing that through. As for laggy, Cyberpunk runs orders of magnitude better through Stadia on my only computer - a dated Core i3 laptop - than natively. You're not wrong. Running it yourself is obviously better if you have the hard…

Modern consoles all have pay-as-you-go-plans for something like $30/mo. I hate the renting aspect of it, but they provide accessibility to the platforms to those who cannot afford it.

Re: When will Google kill Stadia?

#26

Post by jhbadger »

zepto wrote: post #16
nickelcitymario wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are streaming gaming services that don't deal with latency issues? (Not being sarcastic. To my knowledge, no one has cracked this yet.) My overall point in comparing to YouTube is that the internet WILL get faster. More and more people will have the kind of broadband needed to make this a good experience. I'm sure it sucks today. But what about 10 years from now? Streaming video used to suck. Now it doesn't. St…

> There are streaming gaming services that don’t deal with latency issues? No, but those aren’t the only alternatives - consoles, PCs etc, are. Youtube had no established, better alternative to compete with. You may be right that streaming games won’t suck in the future. I’m just pointing out that this is not like the YouTube situation at all. Also YouTube didn’t suck even at the beginning.

Perhaps a better analogy would be Netflix streaming. A lot of people thought it was nuts given how many people were still on low-bandwith DSL connections that couldn't reliably stream even in standard definition. There was already an existing solution that worked well -- DVDs by mail (Netflix's original business model). That still exists, but is a small fraction of Netflix's business today.

Re: When will Google kill Stadia?

#27

Post by bhaile »

cwhiz wrote: post #20

The problem I have with Stadia is the target audience. People who want to play AAA games, and People who don’t care about latency, and People who don’t want a console. Honestly, who is this for? If you can’t afford a console there are options such as “Xbox All Access” which starts as low as $23/month. If you want to play AAA games and don’t want a console, you probably care about latency. I just don’t get it.

I want flexibility that includes quality games with quality graphics. I'm not looking for high-end gaming PC quality (which I used to own) but close to it. Stadia hits that for me. I play it on TV and laptop depending where I am.

Gaming PCs and consoles will be around for a long time as they serve a market. I hope Stadia builds on their market fit and to become another platform widely used.

Re: When will Google kill Stadia?

#28

Post by brocket »

I signed up for the free Stadia trial they offered awhile back. I wanted to get back into gaming, don't have any hardware to run modern games and have a fast fiber connection at home. I seemed like the ideal target user.

I spun up a classic, Serious Sam and immediately was disappointed. It looked okay 95% of the time but would randomly get tearing and input lag at critical moments when enemies appeared. I tried on different hardware and different connections and it was all unusable. I think the issue is even a minor lag in FPS games ruins the experience. Forget about playing competitive multiplayer games like PUBG or Counter-Strike.

I ended up finding an unexpected alternative. Microsoft offers Xbox All Access plan as low as $23 dollars per month for physical console + game pass ultimate. To me that has been a much more compelling offer considering I own the console after and gave me immediate access to over hundred games to play locally (including great AAA titles), a fantastic way to get back into gaming. Also, I found out you can plug in a keyboard and mouse for FPS games. Seeing smooth low-latency 4K games is so refreshing and stark contrast to Stadia.

At this point I don't really understand Stadia's target market. It caters to such a tiny intersection of groups that it's almost nobody. Stadia might stick around as a niche for awhile, but it's never going to be the majority of gamers first choice since running games locally is such a superior experience.

Re: When will Google kill Stadia?

#29

Post by brundolf »

issamehh wrote: post #22
nickthemagicman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starlink has a 40 millisecond latency and it goes to space and back and then it goes through all of the additional routing issues you're talking about. So I think you may be over estimating how much latency is inherent in the network. It may not be that I have a low latency connection...maybe you have an exceptionally high latency connection. Maybe your apartment building has issues with the wiring? You should really…

In some cases Starlink can actually have less latency than wired connections. It's not so clear cut. Also not every internet problem is solved by calling the landlord. In fact, mine has basically nothing to do with my internet in the first place.

Right. I'd bet Starlink actually gets to skip a lot of the routing and repeating that landlines have to go through

Re: When will Google kill Stadia?

#30

Post by mikestew »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #13
zepto wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latency is not an issue with YouTube. And of course in 2007 there was no better alternative to youtube, whereas all alternatives to Stadia are better.

There are streaming gaming services that don't deal with latency issues? (Not being sarcastic. To my knowledge, no one has cracked this yet.) My overall point in comparing to YouTube is that the internet WILL get faster. More and more people will have the kind of broadband needed to make this a good experience. I'm sure it sucks today. But what about 10 years from now? Streaming video used to suck. Now it doesn't. St…

But what about 10 years from now?

Man, what was the name of that streaming console that they never produced that was all hyped about ten years ago (EDIT: found it, the Phantom[0]; and OMG, it was 16 years ago)? Because that was what was being said about...ten years ago. Still waiting.

I don't know that's a nut that will ever get cracked. I've got symmetrical gigabit fiber, but you think it's the speed that makes the difference? Nope, it's latency. And to a certain extent, one has to hope that the speed of light will take a big leap forward. Here's an example that has little to do with gaming: online music playing with other people. Boy howdy, 30ms of total latency and you'll quickly notice. That's why practically no one uses (for example) Zoom, and uses something like JamKazam instead. Zoom has other priorities, as long as the packets get there in a reasonably timely manner. JamKazam, OTOH, prioritizes low latency. You go buy a special box ("USB audio interface") to plug things into, wired Ethernet and no WiFi, and your headphones and mic are wired. Everything is wired. And even then, in a two hour jam session we'll get the occasional person that's lagging just a half-beat off. (I wish everyone used JamKazam for online meetings, because a side benefit is that conversations are much more pleasant without the lag of a Zoom/Teams/Whatever meeting.)

So hundreds of dollars of equipment, and no wireless anything in sight, to cut latency to something reasonable to play music, but somehow a wireless controller connected to a box using WiFi over an internet connection that has the same latency it did probably ten years ago is going to work smoothly? Not today, not tomorrow, but maybe sometime in the future as long as you're not in Seattle trying to play someone in Miami.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_Entertainment#Release

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