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Turbo Pascal: A Great Choice for Programming Under CP/M (2013)

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21–30 of 118 posts

Re: Turbo Pascal: A Great Choice for Programming Under CP/M (2013)

#21
post #8

Hmm, I started reading the Wikipedia article on the Pascal programming language. I was reading about the pointer types and saw a 'with' statement... Where did I see something like that before?... Yes, JavaScript! Where it is highly discouraged to use. How is it like in Pascal?

As I remember it from nearly 25 years ago, with was a safe and straightforward construct to use, as long as you kept it within manageable scopes. Great for saving an extra dereference inside some monster loop when the microseconds really counted.

Re: Turbo Pascal: A Great Choice for Programming Under CP/M (2013)

#22
I learned Pascal with Turbo Pascal on CP/M sometime around 1983 or 1984. IMHO it was the best software development environment for that platform. It was full featured, very fast (both compilation and run-time), and very memory efficient.

I also had Microsoft CBASIC, Fortran-80, COBOL-80, BDS-C, and many assemblers. Turbo Pascal put them all to shame. The C compilers for CP/M could not even do floating point math. Turbo Pascal had no such limitations.

Re: Turbo Pascal: A Great Choice for Programming Under CP/M (2013)

#23
I was so lucky that for a matter of fate I ended up buying a Turbo Pascal 4.0 book, when figuring out where to move after Turbo Basic.

Eventually I got old of Turbo Pascal 3.0, started learning there (yep a version below), then at school Turbo Pascal 5.5 was actually the programming language after Basic, so I got introduced to units, and Object Pascal.

Eventually due to an agreement with the teacher that if had a theme I wanted to learn more, I could study it and present to the class.

I choose OOP, which in the process made the owner of a Turbo Pascal 6.0 copy, with the wonderful Turbo Vision framework to learn from.

On the same year I bought a copy of Turbo Pascal for Windows 1.5 (target Windows 3.x), with the Object Windows Library, a pleasure to work with versus bare bones Win32.

So when I go to learn C a couple of years later, it never impressed me, too little features, too unsafe, the only thing going for it was being available in more platforms than Turbo Pascal was.

Luckily the same class also had a Turbo C++ 1.0 package that was being ignored, and that brought me the Turbo Pascal features I was enjoying, alongside the portability that Turbo Pascal lacked.

From my point of view, only Microsoft and Apple tools seem to keep on the same developer tooling spirit and language capabilities.

Re: Turbo Pascal: A Great Choice for Programming Under CP/M (2013)

#24
post #17

Pascal was one of my earliest exposures to programming. MS just released Windows XP, I was in high school. Back in those days, people used Basic, Pascal, and C for programming competitions. Already had some experiences with Basic, and found C to be too "low level" for my taste, I picked Pascal. Next year, I jumped into Delphi: learning Win32 GUI basics and some database programming with MySQL. Probably pretty advance…

The latest version of Delphi compiles 1 billion lines of code in 5 minutes on a 16 core 5950X and 2 minutes on a 64 core 3990X.

Re: Turbo Pascal: A Great Choice for Programming Under CP/M (2013)

#25
post #9

I really wonder how Pascal and the Pascal family of languages, including modula/oberon and ada, how they became niche and how java and c++ took over the world?

Easy answer, UNIX mass adoption.

Long answer,

UNIX spread like fire, because Bell Labs/AT&T initially weren't allowed to sell it.

So the code was given to university, and while they needed to pay for a UNIX license to use it, the price was symbolic versus paying for something like VMS.

Which naturally made UNIX the number one choice for the startups trying to get into the Workstation market during the 90's.

So C started to spread into the 8 and 16 bit computers in some form.

When those 8 and 16 bit home computers, written in Assembly, started to be replaced by more powerful systems, the OS vendors were adopting C as the language.

Most won't be aware of this today, but Microsoft did sell Xenix and MS-DOS at the same time, they sold Xenix as they decided to focus on MS-DOS instead. In fact, MS-DOS 4 failure was an attempt to make it more UNIX like.

At the same time, maybe to reduce costs, the OS vendors started to reduce the amount of compilers they were selling it for their platforms, selling only the same ones as they were using themselves for the OS, which by then naturally meant C.

Any other language started to be available only from third parties, and most of the time without bindings to all OS APIs.

So given the choice of buying the language programming tools from the OS vendor, with everything ready to code, or paying even more (you would need the OS SDK anyway) and having to code bindings, the majority stayed with OS SDK only.

As C++ is a C sibling, coming from UNIX birthplace, it quickly found a place among C compiler vendors tooling.

Java, well it was pushing by Sun, quickly adopted by Microsoft, IBM and Oracle on their platforms.

So enjoyed a bit that extra love from platform owners.

Having lived through this evolution, I have learned only to bet on platform languages, or those that eventually get blessed by platform owners on their official SDKs.

Re: Turbo Pascal: A Great Choice for Programming Under CP/M (2013)

#26
post #9

I really wonder how Pascal and the Pascal family of languages, including modula/oberon and ada, how they became niche and how java and c++ took over the world?

My theory is that programmers love complexity and gravitate to more and more complex things over time. If something is complex and never complete your job is assured to be there tomorrow. C++ has a performance advantage but Java and C# do not.

Re: Turbo Pascal: A Great Choice for Programming Under CP/M (2013)

#27
post #25
post #9

I really wonder how Pascal and the Pascal family of languages, including modula/oberon and ada, how they became niche and how java and c++ took over the world?

Easy answer, UNIX mass adoption. Long answer, UNIX spread like fire, because Bell Labs/AT&T initially weren't allowed to sell it. So the code was given to university, and while they needed to pay for a UNIX license to use it, the price was symbolic versus paying for something like VMS. Which naturally made UNIX the number one choice for the startups trying to get into the Workstation market during the 90's. So C star…

It also didn't help that Berkeley Pascal for BSD was terrible. Made a subroutine call for every subscripting operation. This discouraged using Pascal on UNIX.

Re: Turbo Pascal: A Great Choice for Programming Under CP/M (2013)

#28
Turbo Pascal is great and I love the fact that it uses the Wordstar key combinations. I wish that there was a version for 8080 but I understand why they went with the Z80. Borland went on to create Turbo Modula-2 for CP/M which was very similar to TP but with lots of language enhancements and faster execution time of the resulting binaries. However, it was released quite late in 1986 and quickly withdrawn.

Re: Turbo Pascal: A Great Choice for Programming Under CP/M (2013)

#30

The first software "product" that I sold was created using Turbo Pascal running on DOS. I was in high school at the time. It was designed for an Orthodontist who wanted to input (using a tablet with a cross-hair "mouse") about 20 points from an X-ray of a patient's head, then perform some calculations on the geometry to predict how the jaw bones and teeth were going to develop as the patient gets older. To this day I…

Maybe the disillusionment does not have it‘s origins in your work situation but stems from other areas of your life? - I am in my late fourties, and I feel great satisfaction whenever I am sitting at my desk and writing code, hacking, automating stuff, solving problems using my computer. - I have a similar anecdote regarding Turbo Pascal. In highschool, I had visualized a breakdown of vector forces in an electromagnetic field, and my teacher was thrilled. In order to be able to do that I had written my own vector and matrix calculus libraries.)
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