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Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

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Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#21

Post by swalsh »

offtop5 wrote: post #9

This scares me a bit. Let's say you have certain nero indicators which indicate person X may do Y . Do you we then minority report lock up people. At the same time , it's going to be amazing for people in a coma or unable to communicate. We could have a fantastic amazing world, where we effectively live forever via some type of matrix like interface.

Worse yet, while the government may be banned from looking at this data intrusively. We're likely to freely give it away to a few large tech companies. Without limits on their use, their power will only continue to grow.

To me the primary issue of our day at this moment, is we have no users bill of rights. We are forced to use the services of large tech companies to participate in modern life yet there are few restrictions on their powers.

It's bad enough when it's our written thoughts. But the idea that it can be my unwritten thoughts too... that scares the heck out of me.

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#22

Post by offtop5 »

swalsh wrote: post #21
offtop5 wrote: post #9

This scares me a bit. Let's say you have certain nero indicators which indicate person X may do Y . Do you we then minority report lock up people. At the same time , it's going to be amazing for people in a coma or unable to communicate. We could have a fantastic amazing world, where we effectively live forever via some type of matrix like interface.

Worse yet, while the government may be banned from looking at this data intrusively. We're likely to freely give it away to a few large tech companies. Without limits on their use, their power will only continue to grow. To me the primary issue of our day at this moment, is we have no users bill of rights. We are forced to use the services of large tech companies to participate in modern life yet there are few restri…

You have to just be careful who gets your data.

The less you use social media the happier you'll generally be. No matter what you say the context around it can change and your life destroyed with it.

Breaking out of the social media matrix has been one of my best decisions, I was able to really live in 2019. Made tons of friends as well as a few partners. All of this happened in this place called reality.

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#23

Post by cambalache »

offtop5 wrote: post #9

This scares me a bit. Let's say you have certain nero indicators which indicate person X may do Y . Do you we then minority report lock up people. At the same time , it's going to be amazing for people in a coma or unable to communicate. We could have a fantastic amazing world, where we effectively live forever via some type of matrix like interface.

Yes, they will do. People are claiming for other people to be fired, disbarred or imprisoned for stupid tweets. Can you imagine the cancel brigade and the big social media companies in charge of this technology and its consequences?

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#24

Post by bognition »

PH01 wrote: post #17
bognition wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most if not all of the very interesting signals are in the 100hz - 10Khz range. These signals are also very low voltage so. Add in that the skulls acts as a low pass filter and you end up in a situation where you just will not be able to recover the information needed to decode what the brain is doing at the required resolution. You can use ECoG which is like EEG but placed on under dura-mater (a protective bag aroun…

What signals do you mean? Brain waves measured in EEG typically range from 0.5 Hz and above.

The signals you pick up between 0.5 Hz and 40Hz are mostly likely "population" level signals or put another way the average activity of millions of neurons spread across large swaths of the brain. A good analogy re: trying to decode the brain from EEG would be akin to trying to decode what is going on in a soccer match but only using the noise of the crowds.

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#25

Post by pugworthy »

nabla9 wrote: post #6

It will be horrible when you suddenly can't afford to subscribe your brain extensions. It will be like severe brain damage. Imagine living only half-life.

Reduced to a life of just using a crowbar and not talking t anyone.

But all jokes aside, it could be brain damage, but drug addiction might be a better analogy. It could be something that takes time for neuroplasticity to repair or correct.

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#26

Post by a_wild_dandan »

Justsignedup wrote: post #14

Heh. Remember back in the day when pacemakers were being hacked remotely because admin passwords weren't even changed from the default, on top of outdated wireless protocols? Oh right that's today! Hardware makers often aren't good at software, not to mention software updates. And even that gets wonky, like when Microsoft update got hijacked. Point is, if we can't get IoT 100% right, or even 90% right, how can we tru…

These are all valid worries, but they all have the same fundamental solutions as current products.

> if we can't get IoT 100% right, or even 90% right, how can we trust IoT with physical interfaces into our bodies?

Trust is a risk-reward calculus for any product, whether it's BCI, the microcontrollers in your car, or the (hopefully uninfected) produce in your supermarket. Many folks will find the BCI value outweighs the risks for some feature set that matters to them.

> And then what happens if the company who made your implant goes out of business? What do you do when those updates stop?

Certain applications will have to be designed and evaluated with longevity or long-term support in mind. You don't need that when talking about cellphones. You do for today's pacemakers.

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#27

Post by brundolf »

Justsignedup wrote: post #14

Heh. Remember back in the day when pacemakers were being hacked remotely because admin passwords weren't even changed from the default, on top of outdated wireless protocols? Oh right that's today! Hardware makers often aren't good at software, not to mention software updates. And even that gets wonky, like when Microsoft update got hijacked. Point is, if we can't get IoT 100% right, or even 90% right, how can we tru…

And that's not even getting into the privacy aspect. I, for one, reserve no excitement whatsoever for a world where we can interface directly with computers. I'm just hoping that unlike smartphones, it remains viably optional.

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#28

Post by pugworthy »

HP is getting into basic (compared to GabeN's ideas) work in this area with the Omnicept VR headset. It looks like eye tracking, pupillometry sensor, heart rate, and a face camera. Not direct neurotechnology but none the less using data to better understand and adapt to the user's response to VR.

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/vr/reverb-g2-vr-headset-omnicept-e...

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#29

Post by PH01 »

bognition wrote: post #24
PH01 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What signals do you mean? Brain waves measured in EEG typically range from 0.5 Hz and above.

The signals you pick up between 0.5 Hz and 40Hz are mostly likely "population" level signals or put another way the average activity of millions of neurons spread across large swaths of the brain. A good analogy re: trying to decode the brain from EEG would be akin to trying to decode what is going on in a soccer match but only using the noise of the crowds.

How are signals up to 10Khz generated? I thought the absolute refractory period of a neuronal action potential limits the rate at which they can fire.

Re: Gabe Newell on brain-computer interface technology

#30

Post by andygmb »

johnnybaptist wrote: post #16

I work at OpenBCI. It's been great getting to work with Gabe and the Valve team. Can't overstate how unique they are as partners on a project like this. Also cool to see OpenBCI (sortof) in the top 10 today :) Happy to answer any questions people have about OpenBCI https://openbci.com/

In the area of BCI, what is the most "Science-Fictiony" thing you have seen made into a reality?
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