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Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

economist.com

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Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#22
post #20
post #14

I would sincerely like to get a breakdown of all the factors that contribute to the Japanese living to such an old age, rather than the usual "this one weird trick" bullshit that Economist and others try to swindle on the Western readership. It's quite frankly annoying, although I've lost the last ounce of respect I've had for the Economist years ago so I'm the idiot for expecting them to be any better. I've gone thr…

What's an alternative to the Economist? I can't find a better publication short of an academic journal or literature. Someone recommended Foreign Affairs but I've yet to buy one.

It's not a competitor to the Economist, but for general scientific topics including some health information Scientific American would be a step up in depth and coverage, while not being as dense as real journals or Science, Nature, etc.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#23
post #4

Paywalled so didn't read TFA but: It's always surprised that the longevity in Japan is often attributed to diet. From my travels there my impression is of a diet that largely consists of rice and various meats and a high consumption of alcohol and cigarettes. Although there definitely seems to be far less sugar in everything. Culturally it seems that fitness in general is encouraged, combined with a very different at…

> Culturally it seems that fitness in general is encouraged, combined with a very different attitude toward being overweight (I had several locals comment that I was a bit fat [my BMI is ~26]) This, perhaps, is the key to their longevity. The French have a similar attitude as well (based on my time in France).

I dunno https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=obese+adults+vs+life+e... doesn't look to have much of a trend line.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#25
post #4

Paywalled so didn't read TFA but: It's always surprised that the longevity in Japan is often attributed to diet. From my travels there my impression is of a diet that largely consists of rice and various meats and a high consumption of alcohol and cigarettes. Although there definitely seems to be far less sugar in everything. Culturally it seems that fitness in general is encouraged, combined with a very different at…

Re diet: putting aside that alcohol-per-capita consumption here in Japan is less than the OECD average [1], and also how the article is actually about how the introduction of meat into the Japanese diet has caused a decrease in strokes (i.e. this is probably off-topic); it is true that if you are eating out cheaply, you'll likely find lots of rice and meat stuff like gyuudon (beef on rice), katsudon (breaded meat on rice) and what not.

But a normal Japanese meal generally has a pretty good mix of stuff - some fermented side dishes (tsukemono), some veggies, miso soup, some rice or noodles, some fish, maybe some meat. Perhaps my wife is an outlier, but every meal she's cooked for our household has had at least 3 dishes of different categories as a part of it, and my impression from seeing other households and just looking at a typical bento box, is that that's a pretty normal expectation for any healthy meal. Someone else pointed me to this Youtube video on the topic on a different thread, and I'd say it's pretty accurate [2].

When I go to drinking bars, izakayas, with Japanese people they usually tend to do the same and order a variety of small dishes too - it's not common to just get fried chicken (karaage), but rather people almost always also throw in salty drinking foods (otsumami), which usually include seafood, pickles and vegetables (shiokara, takowasa, various tsukemono and so on). Even then, if someone orders sweets or something, they tend to be a lot less unhealthy than American counterparts (use of less calorific ingredients like adzuki beans or black sesame, compared to a cheesecake or something; and if you did order that cheesecake, it'll be 1/4 the size of what you got at the Cheesecake Factory, and be a whole lot less sweet and rich, as you've pointed out).

It's not straightforward to get a really authentic food experience if you're coming as a tourist who doesn't know locals nor the local food scene well. My first impression was also that it's a ton of rice and meat, but after living here it turns out that that is the case... if you think that Japanese food is all sushi and ramen, and are being sold food to satisfy a standard American tourist, who thinks that anything pickled is gross, anything served cold besides ice cream is disgusting, and that a meal that doesn't include a giant hunk of meat, isn't a meal at all. Get past that, and you'll find that most Japanese people don't eat like that at all.

So yeah, I think diet probably does make a significant difference, as you can tell plainly by how few obese people there are in Japan; and recently the government finally seems to be doing things to reduce tobacco consumption (you can't smoke in most bars and restaurants in Tokyo anymore, when you can it's generally e-cigarettes only, fueling a huge shift to IQOS/other brands e-cigs which have as of 2019 taken over around 16% of the tobacco market [3]; anecdotally it feels like a lot more than that as of 2021 living here).

Re culture: Agreed, here in Japan (and in other parts of Asia too) it's pretty normal for friends to tell you things like, "wow, you got fatter since we last met!" to someone who's much less than 26 on the BMI index. It's not really considered insulting like it is in the West. That said, female Japanese models tend to be insanely skinny, creating an unrealistic concept of beauty - but that's hardly unique to Japan.

[1] https://www.who.int/substance_abuse/publications/global_alco... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr4MmmWQtZM [3] https://apps.who.int/tobacco/publications/prod_regulation/ht...

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#26
Some observations...

1) Japan is not built around cars. There are more trains. You get to walk more.

2) Food portions are smaller, making it harder to overeat.

3) Fish is more popular than meat. Fish section in supermarkets is larger. Most kitchens have fish cooking equipment.

4) They do not put cheese in goddamn everything.

I guess they get to eat more mercury (from fish) and arsenic (from rice).

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#27
post #15
post #4

Paywalled so didn't read TFA but: It's always surprised that the longevity in Japan is often attributed to diet. From my travels there my impression is of a diet that largely consists of rice and various meats and a high consumption of alcohol and cigarettes. Although there definitely seems to be far less sugar in everything. Culturally it seems that fitness in general is encouraged, combined with a very different at…

A normal home meal is fairly balanced, if you were eating out a lot that isn't a great representation of a normal diet. Also portion sizes are much smaller than the west. I think you are right about fitness, in general there is a lot of riding and walking in daily life. Unlike in a lot of the west, where you can go from sitting at home to sitting in your car to sitting at your desk without more than 100m of walking.…

It's more than restaurants choosing to limit it, a straight up ban has gone into effect for the last 9 months now [1] - hence it's much better than before. Not sure how or if it's legal, but some divey spots have managed to get exemptions or are just risking it though - a friend of mine who runs a cafe says that the cafe is classed as some kind of social club so it's not subject to the same ban, but that sounds pretty shakey lol.

[1] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/04/01/national/japan-...

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#28
post #20
post #14

I would sincerely like to get a breakdown of all the factors that contribute to the Japanese living to such an old age, rather than the usual "this one weird trick" bullshit that Economist and others try to swindle on the Western readership. It's quite frankly annoying, although I've lost the last ounce of respect I've had for the Economist years ago so I'm the idiot for expecting them to be any better. I've gone thr…

What's an alternative to the Economist? I can't find a better publication short of an academic journal or literature. Someone recommended Foreign Affairs but I've yet to buy one.

The Economist is quite simply the best news magazine in existence. Imperfect but the least bad. Foreign Affairs is entirely an entirely different publication made of collections of topical essays on foreign policy

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#29
post #14

I would sincerely like to get a breakdown of all the factors that contribute to the Japanese living to such an old age, rather than the usual "this one weird trick" bullshit that Economist and others try to swindle on the Western readership. It's quite frankly annoying, although I've lost the last ounce of respect I've had for the Economist years ago so I'm the idiot for expecting them to be any better. I've gone thr…

I think the short answer is quite simply nobody really knows.

Your best bet IMO is to ignore genetics (can't change it), pick a "Blue Zone", and emulate what you can- within reason. This is something we still haven't solved, so the next best thing is to try to follow a proven playbook. You could call it cargo cult'ing, but until we crack the code it's the best we've got.

Then you can sprinkle in rock-solid conventional knowledge, for example we're pretty much dead-certain that exercise is good for you and time in nature improves your well-being.

Re: Japanese people may have gained longevity by balancing their diets

#30

For what it's worth, Asian-Americans in New Jersey (and several other wealthy states) have a higher life expectancy than Japanese people in Japan. Source: https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/08/asian-americans-men-in...

Probably a bad idea to compare a large data set (people in entire county) with comparatively vastly smaller sample set (Asian-American living in New Jersey).
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