Why cant we find "our guy"?? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why cant we find "our guy"??

#21

Post by maxdemarzi » Tue, May 24, 2011, 8:44 PM UTC

David, it sucks to be in your position and I can sympathize. Most of us developers suck at UI/UX design and end up looking for "our guy/gal" designer too... and we don't have any money either.

A 21 month University of Chicago Booth MBA runs about 160k ( http://www.chicagobooth.edu/fulltime/admissions/costs.aspx ), two of those is 320k. For just another 30k (10% more than you are already in debt/paid for) you could probably find a development shop to do an MVP. But 5k -10k on E-lance isn't going to do it. ( http://www.elance.com/j/levine-group-llc/24158220/ )

Re: Why cant we find "our guy"??

#22

Post by dmlevi » Tue, May 24, 2011, 8:54 PM UTC

maxdemarzi wrote: post #21

David, it sucks to be in your position and I can sympathize. Most of us developers suck at UI/UX design and end up looking for "our guy/gal" designer too... and we don't have any money either. A 21 month University of Chicago Booth MBA runs about 160k ( http://www.chicagobooth.edu/fulltime/admissions/costs.aspx ), two of those is 320k. For just another 30k (10% more than you are already in debt/paid for) you could pr…

Ya haha we realized that which is why we reached out on HN. You make a really good point. Thanks for your feedback.

Re: Why cant we find "our guy"??

#23

Post by dmlevi » Tue, May 24, 2011, 8:58 PM UTC

dmlevi wrote: post #22

maxdemarzi wrote: post #21

David, it sucks to be in your position and I can sympathize. Most of us developers suck at UI/UX design and end up looking for "our guy/gal" designer too... and we don't have any money either. A 21 month University of Chicago Booth MBA runs about 160k ( http://www.chicagobooth.edu/fulltime/admissions/costs.aspx ), two of those is 320k. For just another 30k (10% more than you are already in debt/paid for) you could pr…

Ya haha we realized that which is why we reached out on HN. You make a really good point. Thanks for your feedback.

Actually student loans is one of the best ways to borrow money. Very good point, we will look into this.

Re: Why cant we find "our guy"??

#24

Post by hoodoof » Tue, May 24, 2011, 10:20 PM UTC

The answer is that you are looking for the wrong sort of person. You are looking for perfection and someone awesome.

You should be trying to find a good junior/graduate and spend your seed money on giving them a full time job.

They will make mistakes, not do it the best way or the right way, but if you work closely with them then SOMETHING will get built, enough to prove your concept in the market. When your concept succeeds then you will have the money to employ someone more expensive to do it right.

Change your expectation and you will then find the right person.

Re: Why cant we find "our guy"??

#25

Post by dmlevi » Tue, May 24, 2011, 10:40 PM UTC

hoodoof wrote: post #24

The answer is that you are looking for the wrong sort of person. You are looking for perfection and someone awesome. You should be trying to find a good junior/graduate and spend your seed money on giving them a full time job. They will make mistakes, not do it the best way or the right way, but if you work closely with them then SOMETHING will get built, enough to prove your concept in the market. When your concept…

Thanks for the insight. We are working the IT department at UChicago so hopefully that will work out for us. We appreciate your input.

Re: Why cant we find "our guy"??

#26

Post by hoodoof » Tue, May 24, 2011, 10:47 PM UTC

dmlevi wrote: post #25

hoodoof wrote: post #24

The answer is that you are looking for the wrong sort of person. You are looking for perfection and someone awesome. You should be trying to find a good junior/graduate and spend your seed money on giving them a full time job. They will make mistakes, not do it the best way or the right way, but if you work closely with them then SOMETHING will get built, enough to prove your concept in the market. When your concept…

Thanks for the insight. We are working the IT department at UChicago so hopefully that will work out for us. We appreciate your input.

Universities are not the best source for finding juniors and graduates. Put a job ad on a major job board to find them.

Your next challenge is to be able to work out which of the many people who apply can get the job done.

Your primary mechanism for this, after shortlisting/initial interviews, is for each graduate to do a 1 day practical exercise to pull together a simple CRM app that allows creation and browsing of client details. They should have a week notice to prepare themselves for this before doing the test at your office.

You should pay them a straight salary, at the lowest end of the market. Forget anything complex and don't even talk about equity until they have proven themselves invaluable.

Re: Why cant we find "our guy"??

#27

Post by dmlevi » Tue, May 24, 2011, 10:57 PM UTC

hoodoof wrote: post #26

dmlevi wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the insight. We are working the IT department at UChicago so hopefully that will work out for us. We appreciate your input.

Universities are not the best source for finding juniors and graduates. Put a job ad on a major job board to find them. Your next challenge is to be able to work out which of the many people who apply can get the job done. Your primary mechanism for this, after shortlisting/initial interviews, is for each graduate to do a 1 day practical exercise to pull together a simple CRM app that allows creation and browsing of…

Monster.com? We never considered that route but It cant hurt to post. I like your thought process. We have a developer from Orbitz on board that will help translate the "simple CRM app" haha ;) but thank you. Do you know what a salary should be for low end market right now? $20hr?

After reading HN for 3 months, I got the feeling developers enjoyed working for an equity bonus. But then again if this is not a partner then that doesnt make sense. Very useful stuff, thanks for your time.

Re: Why cant we find "our guy"??

#28

Post by hoodoof » Tue, May 24, 2011, 11:10 PM UTC

dmlevi wrote: post #27

hoodoof wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities are not the best source for finding juniors and graduates. Put a job ad on a major job board to find them. Your next challenge is to be able to work out which of the many people who apply can get the job done. Your primary mechanism for this, after shortlisting/initial interviews, is for each graduate to do a 1 day practical exercise to pull together a simple CRM app that allows creation and browsing of…

Monster.com? We never considered that route but It cant hurt to post. I like your thought process. We have a developer from Orbitz on board that will help translate the "simple CRM app" haha ;) but thank you. Do you know what a salary should be for low end market right now? $20hr? After reading HN for 3 months, I got the feeling developers enjoyed working for an equity bonus. But then again if this is not a partner t…

Post an article asking HN "what is the low end salary for a junior/graduate programmer in the U.S.".

How much seed money do you have? Do not pay per hour, pay a salary, assuming you have enough money. Ideally you will have enough to employ a low end graduate for 12 months. That is your runway. When that money is gone your startup is gone. Do not be tempted to spend one cent of the money allocated to the graduate salary on anything else.

Re: Why cant we find "our guy"??

#29

Post by hoodoof » Tue, May 24, 2011, 11:31 PM UTC

dmlevi wrote: post #27

hoodoof wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities are not the best source for finding juniors and graduates. Put a job ad on a major job board to find them. Your next challenge is to be able to work out which of the many people who apply can get the job done. Your primary mechanism for this, after shortlisting/initial interviews, is for each graduate to do a 1 day practical exercise to pull together a simple CRM app that allows creation and browsing of…

Monster.com? We never considered that route but It cant hurt to post. I like your thought process. We have a developer from Orbitz on board that will help translate the "simple CRM app" haha ;) but thank you. Do you know what a salary should be for low end market right now? $20hr? After reading HN for 3 months, I got the feeling developers enjoyed working for an equity bonus. But then again if this is not a partner t…

>>>Very useful stuff, thanks for your time.

The price of the advice....... if you find someone using this approach then please do a "Tell HN:" post explaining how you used this approach to find the first developer for your startup.

Re: Why cant we find "our guy"??

#30

Post by dmlevi » Wed, May 25, 2011, 12:14 AM UTC

hoodoof wrote: post #29

dmlevi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monster.com? We never considered that route but It cant hurt to post. I like your thought process. We have a developer from Orbitz on board that will help translate the "simple CRM app" haha ;) but thank you. Do you know what a salary should be for low end market right now? $20hr? After reading HN for 3 months, I got the feeling developers enjoyed working for an equity bonus. But then again if this is not a partner t…

>>>Very useful stuff, thanks for your time. The price of the advice....... if you find someone using this approach then please do a "Tell HN:" post explaining how you used this approach to find the first developer for your startup.

consider it done.