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Idea Guy Looking for Developer

bubblefoundry.com

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Re: Idea Guy Looking for Developer

#21

Post by owenmarshall »

SwellJoe wrote: post #10
duopixel wrote: post #6

I'm always amused at the "why don't you try building it yourself" response developers give when they're asked this kind of question. The amount of knowledge you need to execute an idea is staggering. Deep down they know there's a 99.9% chance the guy will fail. It's as if a person went up to an architect and asked him to build him a hotel with promises of sharing the future revenue stream. Architect responds "I can't…

I've seen people learn to code in order to build their ideas. It's even occasionally turned out OK. I've also seen people learn to build in order to build their own gazebo, deck, and even a log cabin. It's not a hotel, but it is a useful piece of construction that a person with no architecture eduction can build with only a moderate amount of knowledge and experience. Some development projects are the equivalent of a…

>Maybe a self-proclaimed biz guy ought to prove himself by getting money lined up first, either by earning it, or convincing people to invest in him.

That's the difference between an "ideas man" and an entrepreneur. And it's the easiest way to successfully differentiate when someone approaches you with an idea.

A real entrepreneur understands that ideas are worthless; only implementations have any value. Thus, they will be ready and willing to pay you (gasp!) for your time.

I, like almost every programmer out there, I'd imagine, have been approached multiple times by people with great ideas. What quickly distinguishes the serious partners is asking them what they can bring -- not will bring, but can bring -- to the partnership. A true partner will show you a rough mockup of their ideas, market research, and a stack of cash they pulled together. The ideas guy will tell you that the idea alone is worth your time.

Re: Idea Guy Looking for Developer

#22

Post by Goladus »

thetrumanshow wrote: post #2

"They both think that less skill is required (so the programmer doesn’t deserve much compensation) and that less time is required (effectively creating a very low hourly rate for the programmer, given the flat rates that are often proposed)." I find it ironic how he points out that idea guys tend to undervalue the hard work of the programmer and then at the end he suggests that the idea guy should implement it himsel…

So which is it? Is programming a hard-earned skill that should be paid well, or is it just so easy that a (presumably non-technical) idea guy can just pick it up and run with it? You're sending mixed messages.

He's suggesting the idea guy work hard to earn the skill of a programmer, or at least learn enough to know what's hard and what's not.

Re: Idea Guy Looking for Developer

#23

Post by jsavimbi »

adaml_623 wrote: post #5

This article talks a lot about money and time but doesn't mention the simple fact that some developers (or is it only me) won't want to work with certain people. As a developer I'm not going to work closely with someone I don't like. I guess my message would be: Sometimes developers just aren't into you and your ideas. Perhaps you need to try and understand them more.

> As a developer I'm not going to work closely with someone I don't like.

I'd be interested in knowing how many non-technical people actually consider this issue prior to recruiting a developer to work on a project. Is it obscured because of supply/demand/leverage or is it the case that non-technical people aren't exposed to the personalities of seasoned developers?

Re: Idea Guy Looking for Developer

#24

Post by esmevane »

There's also the (insulting) concept that many of these folks seem to have, which is: Did it never cross your mind that a lot of us spend the bulk of our free time developing our own ideas?

For the majority of Idea Man pitches I've spent time with, there's been a ridiculous amount of assumption involved. These folks are so excited by their own idea, they can't wait to tell me about it. Then what?

Do they want to help me build it? No.

Do they want to design it for me? No.

Do they want to contribute in any way? No.

Do they even usually have money or resources to lay down? No.

Will they pimp it when it's time to? No.

Will they go and seek venture capital to facilitate it? No.

At this point, it is undeniable that their involvement is as close to nil as makes no odds. It may as well be my idea, but usually the ideas I hear are bad, as well. So it would be my idea, that I file away as a concept not worth doing.

And the underlying assumption, of course, that I don't have my own pet projects that I'd much rather develop for free, in my spare time, is ridiculous.

Ideas themselves shouldn't be completely discounted. But if you do not have the impetus to follow up or power your idea, I think that generally speaking you ought to keep it to yourself until you feel like following through in some way or another.

Re: Idea Guy Looking for Developer

#25

Post by owenmarshall »

thetrumanshow wrote: post #20
smokeyj wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So which is it? Is programming a hard-earned skill that should be paid well, or is it just so easy that a (presumably non-technical) idea guy can just pick it up and run with it? Programming can be a hard-earned skill that an intelligent idea guy can acquire. No false dilemma required.

That is certainly so. However at the intersection of two sets {draws two circles}: 1) Idea guys with money, 2) idea guys who think programming is easy ... there probably isn't much interest in paying engineers. The intersection is getting larger thanks in part to engineers self-deprecating like this, which is potentially good for innovation and potentially bad for my wallet.

IMO, both you and smokeyj are correct.

The real advantage in telling the "idea guy" to try to build it themselves comes when they realize that programming is difficult. Sure, they could master it if they were willing to put in the time and effort, but their interests center around the business: sales, investors, etc.

At this point, the idea guy has two choices: either understand that they've got to bring something more than ideas to a partnership, or stubbornly cling to the hope that their idea is enough.

The more people that realize that ideas alone have no value, the better.

Re: Idea Guy Looking for Developer

#26

Post by true_religion »

I don't think that ideas are worthless when they are coming from a position of deep domain knowledge.

For example, I'm currently involved in a seed-stage startup that aims to bring technical and quantitative stock analysis tools to the masses (i.e. protect your 401k by being able to read the market). We have contacts in the finance industry, and each one of those is golden because they bring a wealth of domain experience that is hard if not impossible to find out through books.

Re: Idea Guy Looking for Developer

#27

Post by turoczy »

mgkimsal wrote: post #16

The basic naming used is somewhat insulting - it's basically indicating that developers don't have ideas.

I took that title as the question that everyone asks. It's unfortunate, but it's true. "I'm just an idea guy; do you know any developers?" is the platitude of the startup scene, tech or otherwise.

Re: Idea Guy Looking for Developer

#28

Post by turoczy »

flyosity wrote: post #19

The thing that always gets me is that "idea guys" seem to assume that "developers" can't get ideas, like it's a skill that only a select few can possess. Guess what? Everyone has ideas, and being a developer is great because we can actually build our ideas.

The thing I never get is this… If the idea is so amazing, then you should be able to find funding to hire incredible developers to build it. If it's not that amazing, but you're convinced you're creative, then use that creativity to find the developers you need.

"Idea guy seeking developer" usually means "I think I have a get rich quick scheme."

Re: Idea Guy Looking for Developer

#29

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

To take what a lot of people are saying a little further - having the idea isn't enough, they need to be asking what do they bring to the project in terms of execution.

Do they have sales, marketing or account management experience? Knowledge of the particular market the product might operate in? Experience setting up and or running a company? An understanding of process change and implementation of supporting services or whatever else is relevant?

You need to sell not just your idea but also yourselves.

Developers can have ideas but there are a bunch of things we're either not good at, don't get experience of or don't enjoy. If you really want to appeal to a developer then tell them how you can fill that gap.

And please, make it a real gap, not one you've got based on some stereotype which may or may not apply to the person you're speaking to.

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