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A lost paradise of purity: the late masterpieces of Schubert

standpointmag.co.uk

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Re: A lost paradise of purity: the late masterpieces of Schubert

#21

Post by dang »

There was a great thread going when this article was posted a few days ago, which was strangled by inappropriate flags. I'm going to move those comments here to give them a second chance.

Flaggers: please don't flag submissions that don't break the site guidelines! This article is obviously on-topic (see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). If it isn't your cup of tea, there are plenty of other things to read. If you run out, the 'past' link at the top will take you to arbitrary amounts of reading material that you missed.

Re: A lost paradise of purity: the late masterpieces of Schubert

#22

Post by zaroth »

bjoli wrote: post #4

His best works are written in what I have always imagined as some sort of feverish spurts when the syphilis was in remission to just get them out of him for the afterworld. The late symphonies, the septet, Winterreise. All amazing works. I listen to a lot of music, but some works I go back to more than others. The big C major quintet (the string quartet with an extra cello one) is in my opinion the greatest piece of…

This one?

https://youtu.be/r1CTu1HOgWg

Re: A lost paradise of purity: the late masterpieces of Schubert

#24

Post by klmadfejno »

jancsika wrote: post #14
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #2

It is interesting that the author here has to describe what emotional effect Schubert might have intended with his use of keys; when writers today do this, to me it suggests that contemporary readers might not hear this angst themselves. Not only did later Romanticism and Debussy stretch tonality to a point where listeners became more comfortable with hitherto dissonant keys, and so they do not hear things the way Sc…

> but modern pop music is very constrained in its use of modulation so society has lost much of the grammar of Baroque, Classical and Romantic music. Just to give a sense of context, try this exercise: 1. Pick any modern pop song. 2. Write down every seemingly superficial aspect of the song you hear: vocoder overuse, why an cheesy electric guitar sound accompanies a certain lyric, whether a given sound is employed fo…

I read this a few times and can't parse out what you're saying. Pop music has a lot of gimmicks? ok sure, but what is the bullet for schubert? What is the grammar?

Re: A lost paradise of purity: the late masterpieces of Schubert

#25

Post by simondw »

klmadfejno wrote: post #24
jancsika wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but modern pop music is very constrained in its use of modulation so society has lost much of the grammar of Baroque, Classical and Romantic music. Just to give a sense of context, try this exercise: 1. Pick any modern pop song. 2. Write down every seemingly superficial aspect of the song you hear: vocoder overuse, why an cheesy electric guitar sound accompanies a certain lyric, whether a given sound is employed fo…

I read this a few times and can't parse out what you're saying. Pop music has a lot of gimmicks? ok sure, but what is the bullet for schubert? What is the grammar?

I think the idea is that the effect on the listener is not purely a function of the objective characteristics of the music, but also depends on historical context and conventions that may change -- or be forgotten -- over time.

Re: A lost paradise of purity: the late masterpieces of Schubert

#26

Post by klmadfejno »

simondw wrote: post #25
klmadfejno wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read this a few times and can't parse out what you're saying. Pop music has a lot of gimmicks? ok sure, but what is the bullet for schubert? What is the grammar?

I think the idea is that the effect on the listener is not purely a function of the objective characteristics of the music, but also depends on historical context and conventions that may change -- or be forgotten -- over time.

That sounds right, but I'm not sure I would say that's any less apparent in modern pop, or any art for that matter.

Re: A lost paradise of purity: the late masterpieces of Schubert

#27

Post by jlarcombe »

I'm sure everyone interested has already heard it, but I strongly recommend the wonderful recording of the last piano sonatas by Krystian Zimerman on Deutsche Grammaphon. He plays on a customised piano with an action closer to that of the instruments of Schubert's day, and the effects he achieves are startling and spectacularly beautiful.
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