China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

rootsudo wrote: post #18

toomuchtodo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am most surprised about how surprised everyone is about these events. Did Jack Ma think he was going to tell the CCP how it is? China is executing an executive for bribery and corruption [1] (a lot of bribery and corruption though!). Perhaps it's simply the Overton Window [2] delta between the US and China. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/china-sentences-ex-banker-to-death-for... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton…

You're right, but also, it's quite compelling news how you think change is coming - yet it doesn't and it falls back under the old ways. I did kind of imagine that, yes, Jack Ma and CCP would be a bit different, but hey, goes to show that CCP still has all the power in China. Makes you wonder about other power vacuums in the world.

Post by whimsicalism » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:27 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #16

toomuchtodo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am most surprised about how surprised everyone is about these events. Did Jack Ma think he was going to tell the CCP how it is? China is executing an executive for bribery and corruption [1] (a lot of bribery and corruption though!). Perhaps it's simply the Overton Window [2] delta between the US and China. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/china-sentences-ex-banker-to-death-for... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton…

I think Bribery in China is like the book/film the firm with regard to “having the goods” for blackmail or in this case Control of party officials via corruption. They look bribery the other way the great majority of the time. Everyone does it, but when they want you, they have air tight, iron clad evidence against you and everyone they need to take down.

Post by ethbr0 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:27 PM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #10

I was thinking about nationalization separately from this. The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth. I wonder if the Chinese are really long term interested in honoring the equity. Meaning - take the money now, grow the businesses and the economy and then at some point say "It's stupid that we're letting foreigners have 20% (or whatever) ownership o…

Post by toomuchtodo » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:30 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #23

mc32 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Bribery in China is like the book/film the firm with regard to “having the goods” for blackmail or in this case Control of party officials via corruption. They look bribery the other way the great majority of the time. Everyone does it, but when they want you, they have air tight, iron clad evidence against you and everyone they need to take down.

> They look bribery the other way the great majority of the time. Everyone does it, but when they want you, they have air tight, iron clad evidence against you and everyone they need to take down. Perhaps in the China of the past, but I don't think the low-level bribery you see in places like Nigeria or India is incredibly common in China anymore.

Post by whimsicalism » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:30 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #19

xyzelement wrote: post #10

I was thinking about nationalization separately from this. The west has invested a lot into the Chinese economy hoping to translate the corresponding equity into growth. I wonder if the Chinese are really long term interested in honoring the equity. Meaning - take the money now, grow the businesses and the economy and then at some point say "It's stupid that we're letting foreigners have 20% (or whatever) ownership o…

>Obviously it will prevent future foreign investment but if China is in a place where they don't care about that, it would be the move. In that case the state can still get sued. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukos_shareholders_v._Russia As for actual compensation to the shareholders, it can range between money seized from foreign accounts (think US treasuries) to sanctions.