Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#21

Post by nudpiedo » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #6

But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet that allows the government itself to compel social media websites to delete people's content? Their feigned concern over Twitter excercising its 1st Amendment rights seems a bit hypocritical here.

As the article says free speech is regulated by law and shall not be restringed by a corporate decision. Usually free speech is incompatible when it offends an individual, and it will be restringed only after a judicial process takes place. The issue is that social networks have no right to do it.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#22

Post by Spiwux » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #6

But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet that allows the government itself to compel social media websites to delete people's content? Their feigned concern over Twitter excercising its 1st Amendment rights seems a bit hypocritical here.

Not only that, Merkel's party is a significant driver in laws and regulations that reduce user internet anonymity.

Considering that multiple politicians voiced this opinion at surprisingly similar time this seems like some coordinated PR thing. They probably just realised that the same could happen to them and that they might have their communication channels cut off when they inevitably try to break up the big US tech giants

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#23

Post by user-the-name » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #14

Hilarious that Europe, who takes a much more measured approach to free speech has concerns with big tech’s censorship. When Europe starts to worry about free speech that says something as to how far America has fallen.

> German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private tech companies.

This is about who gets to make the decisions, not what the decisions are.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#24

Post by throwaway3699 » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

goto11 wrote: post #13

krona wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first amendment never anticipated the public square to be privately owned. Unfortunately I feel things will have to get much worse before people start listening to the adults in the room again, and enact sensible reforms.

What would sensible reforms looks like in your opinion?

People should have legal rights to contest bans of any kind, plus some controls to make sure you don't lose your private data (e.g. emails, chats) attached to your account when banned.

We don't want to make it expensive to moderate, but false positives should not go unresolved. This tips the balance a bit more in favour of consumers.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#25

Post by lqet » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #6

But don't Germany and France both have actual laws against offensive speech on the internet that allows the government itself to compel social media websites to delete people's content? Their feigned concern over Twitter excercising its 1st Amendment rights seems a bit hypocritical here.

Both Macron and Merkel seem to be concerned that private companies are deciding who gets an online presence, not an elected government and/or courts:

> German Chancellor Angela Merkel objected to the decisions, saying on Monday that lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private tech companies.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#26

Post by GarrisonPrime » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

skrowl wrote: post #2

The fact that Europeans are standing up for free speech while the United States is not speaks volumes to how things have changed in the US over the last few decades. Have our politics really gone so far down the "Win at all costs! Censor all other opinions!" rabbit hole that speech here is now less free than Europe? Before you parrot the "but.. but... inciting violence" talking point in reply, try to find an actual s…

I agree that Trump’s banning from Twitter is concerning, and that he did not incite violence. But that isn’t the underlying issue behind the suspension.

The problem is that a small but very eager group of fanatics have latched on to Trump’s Twitter postings as an excuse to react in violent, deluded ways. It no longer mattered what Trump said, the fanatics would twist its meaning and use it as an excuse for mayhem. (The media clearly have some culpability in this, as they intentionally put out outrageous interpretations in order to whip up controversy. But that’s another issue.)

And so, Twitter felt allowing the situation to continue would not be responsible. They weren’t attempting to silence Trump, but rather to deprive the delusional maniacs of fodder.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#27

Post by dmwallin » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

Having the government govern free speech doesn't get you free speech.

If the problem is social media companies that are so large they suck up all the air in the room then solve THAT problem and enforce existing anti-monopoly laws.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#28

Post by literallycancer » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

asutekku wrote: post #3

skrowl wrote: post #2

The fact that Europeans are standing up for free speech while the United States is not speaks volumes to how things have changed in the US over the last few decades. Have our politics really gone so far down the "Win at all costs! Censor all other opinions!" rabbit hole that speech here is now less free than Europe? Before you parrot the "but.. but... inciting violence" talking point in reply, try to find an actual s…

"when the looting starts the shooting starts"

Sounds like an OK policy to me.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#29

Post by davewritescode » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #14

Hilarious that Europe, who takes a much more measured approach to free speech has concerns with big tech’s censorship. When Europe starts to worry about free speech that says something as to how far America has fallen.

What's Twitter supposed to do? There's likely real legal liability here.

Trump has said whatever he wanted on Twitter, true or not, for the better part of a decade. When that speech translated into violence that killed at least 6 including a police officer, what's a company supposed to do?

Also, Free speech protections don't apply to private platforms. Only a government run equivalent of Twitter would be.

Re: Trump’s Twitter Exile Spurs Opposition from Germany, France

#30

Post by btbuildem » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 2:53 PM UTC

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Twitter didn't shut down an elected president's account (@potus), they permanently banned this particular individual's personal account.

But yeah, unchecked corporate power coming home to roost. Personally I believe Nazis should be gagged not given megaphones, but this can affect anyone.

Personally, I think Twitter et al. are acting on advice of counsel, not wanting to be considered an accessory to insurrection. It's telling that despite being called out on their hypocrisy (allowing trump to incite violence for years), the bans come now, after the balance of power in the US shifted to DEM.