Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CS50 for Lawyers

online-learning.harvard.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–29 of 29 posts

Re: CS50 for Lawyers

#21

Post by rarefied_tomato »

bvod wrote: post #16
rarefied_tomato wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can get behind statistical and CS concepts being used to detect gerrymandered districts. There's a whole related field of anomaly detection. My quackery sense tingles when I hear NP-completeness was mentioned in the argument. Do you have more info on the claimed relevance to gerrymandering?

Of course, you can find the full explanation in the amicus brief: https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legal-work... It is NP complete in determining to an absolute degree that a redistricting plan is excessively unfair, as the number of possibly districts grows exponentially. Demonstrating to a quantitative degree is more clear (eg stop drawing more maps after a few billion). I highly recommend anyone i…

I'll check it out. Thanks!

Edit: I didn't find anything in that particular resource. A similar work mentioning complexity is here: https://desh2608.github.io/static/report/ohio.pdf

Roughly, it boils down to a constrained search for the best mapping of precincts into districts, which is NP-hard.

Re: CS50 for Lawyers

#22

Post by rajacombinator »

bvod wrote: post #7

This is not only much needed, but also will help shape how our legal system can adapt to new technologies. I had the privilege of sitting in on an Election Law class last year at YLS. The topic was gerrymandering, with a discussion of the legal arguments presented in Vieth v. Jubelirer. For non-lawyers, the plaintiffs arguments for what should constitute illegal gerrymandering is technically complex, using statistic…

Oh come on. That’s a bunch of buffoonery presented by an academic who wants to sound much smarter than they are, and has zero application to reality. Our legal system is about dividing up the pie amongst those who can pay for it.

Re: CS50 for Lawyers

#23

Post by eeegnu »

leovander wrote: post #6
relaunched wrote: post #5

It's unclear how this course applies or is customized specifically for lawyers. There would be a much clearer value proposition for lawyers if it was summarized in a way like - learn how to build APIs - examining the key claims and decisions from the Oracle v. Google Java API case. As advertised, it seems like a regular CS overview course. They're definitely on to something, it seems like a class to help attorneys be…

It's unclear how this course applies or is customized specifically for lawyers My wife (lawyer) did the first three classes and the first two assignments. I watched along and was waiting for the same thing. She had some fun doing binary and playing around in scratch, and quickly lost interest as we didn't see where the legal part came in. We assumed it was the same course all the other CS50 variants were following an…

If there's anything in that course that would be directly valuable for lawyers, I think it would be version control systems (assuming they cover it.) I don't know how much legal literature exists in this form today, but I imagine all laws and court decisions will migrate to such systems for the ease of access.

Re: CS50 for Lawyers

#24

Post by leovander »

eeegnu wrote: post #23
leovander wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unclear how this course applies or is customized specifically for lawyers My wife (lawyer) did the first three classes and the first two assignments. I watched along and was waiting for the same thing. She had some fun doing binary and playing around in scratch, and quickly lost interest as we didn't see where the legal part came in. We assumed it was the same course all the other CS50 variants were following an…

If there's anything in that course that would be directly valuable for lawyers, I think it would be version control systems (assuming they cover it.) I don't know how much legal literature exists in this form today, but I imagine all laws and court decisions will migrate to such systems for the ease of access.

Again we stopped taking the course because it just didn’t seem relevant enough for her line of work, but another lawyer friend of ours could definitely use a legal oriented “what is version control/source code/package/importing/forking/branching” course.

Re: CS50 for Lawyers

#25

Post by Orochikaku »

WildGreenLeave wrote: post #20
aronpye wrote: post #19

I think a general law course for computer scientists and software engineers would also be useful.

Last year I read a book about IT laws in The Netherlands and ever since I read it I was able to apply that knowledge multiple times. Not necessarily the knowledge from the book itself, but also knowing when you don't know something. This wasn't a course or anything, it was the interpretation of the law by an IT lawyer from NL so it took me just a few hours to read in total.

Would you happen to remember the title of the book?

Re: CS50 for Lawyers

#26

Post by abdullahkhalids »

bvod wrote: post #7

This is not only much needed, but also will help shape how our legal system can adapt to new technologies. I had the privilege of sitting in on an Election Law class last year at YLS. The topic was gerrymandering, with a discussion of the legal arguments presented in Vieth v. Jubelirer. For non-lawyers, the plaintiffs arguments for what should constitute illegal gerrymandering is technically complex, using statistic…

Interesting. My country Pakistan, took a different approach in the last elections. An algorithm [1] was agreed upon, on how to draw constituency boundaries for each district. Further, there can ordinarily only be 10% variation between constituencies in a single district. The entire delimitations exercise was done in open, and there were multiple review steps.

I imagine the algorithm could be further improved, but it at least ensured some amount of certainty and transparency.

------ [1] As far as possible, the delimitation of constituencies of an Assembly shall start from the Northern end of the district1[**] and then proceed clock-wise in zigzag manner keeping in view that population among the constituencies of an Assembly shall remain as close as may be practicable to the quota: https://www.ecp.gov.pk/documents/laws2017/1-3-2020/The%20Ele...

Re: CS50 for Lawyers

#27

Post by abdullahkhalids »

leovander wrote: post #6
relaunched wrote: post #5

It's unclear how this course applies or is customized specifically for lawyers. There would be a much clearer value proposition for lawyers if it was summarized in a way like - learn how to build APIs - examining the key claims and decisions from the Oracle v. Google Java API case. As advertised, it seems like a regular CS overview course. They're definitely on to something, it seems like a class to help attorneys be…

It's unclear how this course applies or is customized specifically for lawyers My wife (lawyer) did the first three classes and the first two assignments. I watched along and was waiting for the same thing. She had some fun doing binary and playing around in scratch, and quickly lost interest as we didn't see where the legal part came in. We assumed it was the same course all the other CS50 variants were following an…

My electrical engineering students, too, get bored when my differential equations course does not talk about circuits in any significant way.

Why do people not realize that skills and knowledge gained in one course will be used in specialized ways in another course? And they don't know enough just yet, to realize that specific topics chosen in the first course have been chosen with the intent of helping them do well in the second course?

Re: CS50 for Lawyers

#28

Post by rmrfstar »

btown wrote: post #4

It's incredible that this material is being provided for free, and I hope that law firms far and wide encourage their associates and partners alike to update their knowledge with this. Understanding which parties and systems touch, transform, and transmit data is central to practically every legal matter in modern times, and standard intro-to-CS coursework is neither sufficient nor fully necessary for legal experts t…

> I hope that law firms far and wide encourage their associates and partners alike to update their knowledge with this

"But most of all, the legal profession has failed. Democratic governance depends upon responsible individuals throughout the entire system who understand and uphold the law, not who understand and exploit it. On average, lawyers have become so deeply corrupt that it is imperative for major changes in the profession to take place, far beyond the meek proposals already on the table. To start, the term “legal ethics,” upon which codes of conduct and licensure are nominally based, has become an oxymoron. Mossack Fonseca did not work in a vacuum—despite repeated fines and documented regulatory violations, it found allies and clients at major law firms in virtually every nation. If the industry’s shattered economics were not already evidence enough, there is now no denying that lawyers can no longer be permitted to regulate one another. It simply doesn’t work. Those able to pay the most can always find a lawyer to serve their ends, whether that lawyer is at Mossack Fonseca or another firm of which we remain unaware. What about the rest of society?

The collective impact of these failures has been a complete erosion of ethical standards, ultimately leading to a novel system we still call Capitalism, but which is tantamount to economic slavery. In this system—our system—the slaves are unaware both of their status and of their masters, who exist in a world apart where the intangible shackles are carefully hidden amongst reams of unreachable legalese. The horrific magnitude of detriment to the world should shock us all awake. But when it takes a whistleblower to sound the alarm, it is cause for even greater concern. It signals that democracy’s checks and balances have all failed, that the breakdown is systemic, and that severe instability could be just around the corner. So now is the time for real action, and that starts with asking questions." [1]

[1] https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/20160506-j...

Re: CS50 for Lawyers

#29

Post by kd0amg »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #27
leovander wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unclear how this course applies or is customized specifically for lawyers My wife (lawyer) did the first three classes and the first two assignments. I watched along and was waiting for the same thing. She had some fun doing binary and playing around in scratch, and quickly lost interest as we didn't see where the legal part came in. We assumed it was the same course all the other CS50 variants were following an…

My electrical engineering students, too, get bored when my differential equations course does not talk about circuits in any significant way. Why do people not realize that skills and knowledge gained in one course will be used in specialized ways in another course? And they don't know enough just yet, to realize that specific topics chosen in the first course have been chosen with the intent of helping them do well…

They are right to be frustrated about not seeing the abstract material connected to concrete applications if your course's title is "Differential Equations for Electrical Engineers."
Post reply on HN