While it's not as well-known or popular at large as, say Infinite Jest, I think that the readership here might enjoy "Everything and more" by David Foster Wallace. It's a history of mathematics around late 1800s and early 1900s surrounding George Cantor and the discovery of uncountable sets, foundations of mathematics, etc. It's both informative and entertaining.
'Plain old untrendy troubles and emotions' (2008)
21–30 of 32 posts
Re: 'Plain old untrendy troubles and emotions' (2008)
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
> truly talented writer, not really the kind of guy who should be held up as a moral teacher. had a long-term pattern of sleeping with his students So? Unless the students where kids (as opposed to 18 and above), that's a moralist, religious-derived, US-centric concern (not that such moralism hasn't made its way and infected other parts of the world)... People that call out adults for sleeping with whoever adult they…
> that's a moralist, religious-derived, US-centric concern It's a conflict of interest, like an employee sleeping with their boss. It's hard to trust somebody to fairly assess somebody they're sleeping with.
>It's a conflict of interest, like an employee sleeping with their boss
It's only bad if it's part of blackmail or exchange (e.g. for grades, etc). Else, if it's a consentual relation, it's fine just like any other.
Lots of employees have had great relationships and marriages and kids with their bosses and vice versa. And even more students and professors had affairs (this will include someone like French President Macron). Humans are humans they don't easily compartmentalize their attraction or sexuality just because some bureaucratic rules say so.
Re: 'Plain old untrendy troubles and emotions' (2008)
#23Although I've read this before, its nice to re-read this now that I have started to pay a bit more attention to theory of mind. I don't have much to offer here except some resources for further exploration. Currently I am reading "Thinking Fast and Slow" which explores related ideas to what Wallace is getting at here but with the rigour of psychology (for all the caveats that come with that).
You could also try Sam Harris' "waking up" app which claims to achieve what is talked about in Wallace's essay through meditation. From my dabbling with it, it is somewhat true if not entirely true.
Finally you could explore broader works on the mind. I have been listening to audiobooks on animal intelligence ("Other Minds" and "The Genius of Birds") and have made a start on a history of psychology/psychiatry - "The Mind Fixers", which is a bit dry but also filled with wonderful anecdotes and stories.
Re: 'Plain old untrendy troubles and emotions' (2008)
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
> that's a moralist, religious-derived, US-centric concern It's a conflict of interest, like an employee sleeping with their boss. It's hard to trust somebody to fairly assess somebody they're sleeping with.
> It's a conflict of interest, like an employee sleeping with their boss It's only bad if it's part of blackmail or exchange (e.g. for grades, etc). Else, if it's a consentual relation, it's fine just like any other. Lots of employees have had great relationships and marriages and kids with their bosses and vice versa. And even more students and professors had affairs (this will include someone like French President…
I don't think the fact that it sometimes works out well means that it's generally a good idea. Relationships probably end in breakup as often as not, and then you're left in the awkward position of still needing to go to class (or to work) with your ex as your "superior."
Re: 'Plain old untrendy troubles and emotions' (2008)
#25truly talented writer, not really the kind of guy who should be held up as a moral teacher. had a long-term pattern of sleeping with his students. committed serious domestic violence against one of his partners. this wasn't well-known at the time this speech was given, or after he killed himself and the speech became hugely popular. It seems like it still isn't. I think there's some kind of minimum bar where you shou…
> truly talented writer, not really the kind of guy who should be held up as a moral teacher. had a long-term pattern of sleeping with his students So? Unless the students where kids (as opposed to 18 and above), that's a moralist, religious-derived, US-centric concern (not that such moralism hasn't made its way and infected other parts of the world)... People that call out adults for sleeping with whoever adult they…
Typically, older teachers who sleep with a lot of students do abuse their position and authority in order to be able to do it. Whether by giving favorable/unfavorable grades, by visibly preferring some students or by more direct threats.
> moralist, religious-derived, US-centric concern
Then again, if teacher touches you inappropriately in US or is trying to manipulate you into that, you can actually complain. It is not easy and you may not be believed, but you are is still in better compared to less moralist places.
It is not exactly US-centric concern to think that any of above happen. The same happen everywhere. It is that complaining about it in US is not a taboo.
Re: 'Plain old untrendy troubles and emotions' (2008)
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's a conflict of interest, like an employee sleeping with their boss It's only bad if it's part of blackmail or exchange (e.g. for grades, etc). Else, if it's a consentual relation, it's fine just like any other. Lots of employees have had great relationships and marriages and kids with their bosses and vice versa. And even more students and professors had affairs (this will include someone like French President…
I don't think the fact that it sometimes works out well means that it's generally a good idea. Relationships probably end in breakup as often as not, and then you're left in the awkward position of still needing to go to class (or to work) with your ex as your "superior."
>I don't think the fact that it sometimes works out well means that it's generally a good idea.
That it's not generally a good idea is inherent in the "sometime it doesn't work out well" (the complamentary to "it sometimes works out well"). But that's also true for most affairs/relationships, and according to statistics, marriages (if we consider a divorce as "the marriage not working out well"). And it can be awkward, like those.
But my point was, it's human, and not some moral issue to condemn a person or a writer's writing for.
Re: 'Plain old untrendy troubles and emotions' (2008)
#27I find no way to phrase it and it's always taken as an attack or troll, so I wonder if anyone knows a proper framework for this argument (whether you agree with it or not): "If you know someone committed suicide, it seems ill-advised to read their thinking. Whether or not it's "advice" and whether or not you read with detachment, what we take in, comes from someone's psyche, echoes and transforms and embeds in our ow…
Other animals commit suicide too, in a state of despair. Scorpions sting themselves when you place them in a ring of embers. The prerequisite is not being able to see a way out of ones situation.
Depression tends to warp perception, not letting positive thoughs through or immediately shooting them down. Abraham Lincoln was depressed too, so much that the people surrounding him removed everything he could hurt himself with from his surroundings.
I think individuals with a sunny disposition or a well functioning, supportive social circle/family are unlikely to be dragged down by writings of depressed individuals.
Re: 'Plain old untrendy troubles and emotions' (2008)
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
> truly talented writer, not really the kind of guy who should be held up as a moral teacher. had a long-term pattern of sleeping with his students So? Unless the students where kids (as opposed to 18 and above), that's a moralist, religious-derived, US-centric concern (not that such moralism hasn't made its way and infected other parts of the world)... People that call out adults for sleeping with whoever adult they…
Typically, older teachers who sleep with a lot of students do abuse their position and authority in order to be able to do it. Whether by giving favorable/unfavorable grades, by visibly preferring some students or by more direct threats. > moralist, religious-derived, US-centric concern Then again, if teacher touches you inappropriately in US or is trying to manipulate you into that, you can actually complain. It is…
>It is not exactly US-centric concern to think that any of above happen. The same happen everywhere. It is that complaining about it in US is not a taboo.
I think it's more that sexuality in the US is a taboo, and everything is seen in the prism of violation and litigation.
Re: 'Plain old untrendy troubles and emotions' (2008)
#29Although I've read this before, its nice to re-read this now that I have started to pay a bit more attention to theory of mind. I don't have much to offer here except some resources for further exploration. Currently I am reading "Thinking Fast and Slow" which explores related ideas to what Wallace is getting at here but with the rigour of psychology (for all the caveats that come with that). You could also try Sam H…
Instead of silently downvoting me, could someone explain why they don't like my comment. Maybe I could learn something from your disagreement instead of just being pointlessly silenced.
Re: 'Plain old untrendy troubles and emotions' (2008)
#30While it's not as well-known or popular at large as, say Infinite Jest, I think that the readership here might enjoy "Everything and more" by David Foster Wallace. It's a history of mathematics around late 1800s and early 1900s surrounding George Cantor and the discovery of uncountable sets, foundations of mathematics, etc. It's both informative and entertaining.
I'm normally a fan of DFW. But in this case I know nothing about the book. So I'll highlight this note from the Wikipedia page:
> Reviewers, including Rudy Rucker,[1] A.W. Moore[2] and Michael Harris,[3] have criticized its style and mathematical content.
Style is, of course, subjective. But I'd look into the content criticism before investing time in this