Keep in mind that a key feature of government is having a monopoly on violence within its jurisdiction...
That is absolutely true, but what are you implying in this context? Was Taiwan harsher with draconian lockdown policies early on?
Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]
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Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]
#22A handful of states attempted to fork the US government 160 years ago. Didn't go well.
Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]
#23It's hard to tell why you might want to listen to this from just the title: "But Taiwan has also been taking a relatively experimental approach to the pandemic with technology. Like working with civic hackers to code its way out of the pandemic. Today on the show, we dive into Taiwan's pandemic policies and ask: Would the U.S. ever take a similar approach?"
Things like the "where do I get masks" map don't seem antithetical to personal privacy the way a contact tracing tool is. That's pretty low-hanging fruit that we didn't appear to make any attempt to pick.
I don't think a Masks Map would work in a country where the population believes COVID is fake, and masks are an Islamic plot.
Don't you have to address those fundamental issues first?
Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll address why one would listen: to learn about some ways not to be the epicenter of a pandemic ever again.
> not to be the epicenter of a pandemic Are we talking about the US? In what metric is the USA the epicenter? In deaths per capita? In infections per capita? I’m pretty sure US leads in testing per capita. I’m not being snarky, I really don’t know if you are referring to USA, and in what way.
We have a very high number of cases per capita, and while we do perform a lot of tests, it's not like we lead in tests per capita. [Here's a good graph to play around with](https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=ea...). We are middling to low in terms of tests per confirmed case (aka its not just that we're performing more tests than others), [here's that graph](https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=20...). And our case fatality rate is pretty good but not amazing (among first-world countries at least) [graph](https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=20...) ([Here's US vs World + regions CFR](https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=20...)).
Note, you have to play around w selecting different countries and dates on that website, I wish they had some kind "select by GDP quartile" or something.
Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]
#25I don't fully get the title from the content, but perhaps NPR is saying that we should have a different control structure for health related maters... Like for example in Star Trek the only people that can override the captain is the doctor. For medical emergencies they can basically force some course of action. It seems in most countries the top brass is making decisions even though they are not technically qualifie…
>Like for example in Star Trek the only people that can override the captain is the doctor. For medical emergencies they can basically force some course of action.
I guess most people who are familiar with this at all are familiar with it from Star Trek, but it's worth mentioning that this is just a natural extension of Starfleet's pseudo-military basis.
When I was in the Army, my word carried nearly as much weight on medical matters as my immediate commanding officer's, even though I was a lowly line medic, not a near equal as the doctors in Star Trek usually are to their respective captains. I had no official authority of my own, but the fact that I could go to my medical superiors for backup meant that I was never questioned when I said something was medically necessary.
My point is, we don't need to go to a SciFi TV show to see this dynamic. It exists in our own current society.
Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll address why one would listen: to learn about some ways not to be the epicenter of a pandemic ever again.
> not to be the epicenter of a pandemic Are we talking about the US? In what metric is the USA the epicenter? In deaths per capita? In infections per capita? I’m pretty sure US leads in testing per capita. I’m not being snarky, I really don’t know if you are referring to USA, and in what way.
I'm guessing you're referring to the probability/possibility of large, untracked or suppressed outbreaks in other countries - India, Iran, Russia, China, Brazil, etc.
Depending on the source of your data, extrapolations on personal experience or rumor or innuendo, or distrust of different government systems, there may very well be massive outbreaks - on the level or exceeding per capita infections in the US. Frankly, we don't have solid data, so it's hard to say.
The US has, best case, massive testing shortfalls and untested cases, periodic government attempts to downplay the issue, and chaotic spikes and overwhelmed systems. It is almost certainly still better in all of these areas than those countries listed above. We can't do anything about that though.
It's fog of war. But you're probably getting downvoted because the tone of your message seems to be one of 'pfft the US isn't that bad' - which by most metrics we seem to have, isn't the case, at least in high profile areas like Southern California. Keeping it from not being overly bad, near as we can tell, also requires taking serious and often painful approaches to the problem to mitigate it, which doesn't happen if it isn't taken seriously. Not taking those measure seems to make the problem even worse - in the sense of concrete, real people being dead that otherwise wouldn't be.
To more directly answer your question - in total number of REPORTED new cases and deaths, US is solidly number 1. As a percent of population, the only sizable country with more cases than the US right now is the Czech Republic - which is serious, but isn't going to get headline news like the US will. By tests per capita, the US is doing reasonably well - the only largish country doing better so far is the UK. However, considering the scope of it's spread in the US, that is probably misleading. Most countries haven't NEEDED to test so much.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Feel free to click on the various sorting widgets to see it from different views.
Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]
#27It's hard to tell why you might want to listen to this from just the title: "But Taiwan has also been taking a relatively experimental approach to the pandemic with technology. Like working with civic hackers to code its way out of the pandemic. Today on the show, we dive into Taiwan's pandemic policies and ask: Would the U.S. ever take a similar approach?"
I'll address why one would listen: to learn about some ways not to be the epicenter of a pandemic ever again.
Anyone at all responsible for the US being one of the worst countries hit is not browsing HN right now looking to learn new perspectives.
Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]
#28Keep in mind that a key feature of government is having a monopoly on violence within its jurisdiction...
That is absolutely true, but what are you implying in this context? Was Taiwan harsher with draconian lockdown policies early on?
Taiwan never had a lockdown! See the discussion here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25539398
Taiwanese policies were not just much more successful in containing the virus, but also much less draconian.
Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not to be the epicenter of a pandemic Are we talking about the US? In what metric is the USA the epicenter? In deaths per capita? In infections per capita? I’m pretty sure US leads in testing per capita. I’m not being snarky, I really don’t know if you are referring to USA, and in what way.
I'm guessing you're referring to the probability/possibility of large, untracked or suppressed outbreaks in other countries - India, Iran, Russia, China, Brazil, etc. Depending on the source of your data, extrapolations on personal experience or rumor or innuendo, or distrust of different government systems, there may very well be massive outbreaks - on the level or exceeding per capita infections in the US. Frankly,…
I think you are mistaken to lump China in those countries.
People are constantly underestimating the Chinese relationship with contagion. I guarantee that China would not be able to hide any major covid outbreaks. Word would escape to outside relatives.
Chinese people are extremely averse to contagion, coupled with a deep surveillance infrastructure and strong authoritarian government they are in a solid position to hold covid at bay.
Re: Bringing civic tech to Taiwan's coronavirus pandemic response [audio]
#30Those are some really incredible Covid numbers for Taiwan, just, incredible . Having spent time there and seem some poorer areas and very dense areas, 7 deaths is unbelievably great.
Last I checked 6 or 7 was also the number of reported Covid deaths in Thailand.