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Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#21

Post by chrisseaton »

gambiting wrote: post #15
kwhitefoot wrote: post #8

Would be better to spend the money that this will cost on fitting a simple domestic socket in every parking bay. That we even my Tesla will gain 13 km per hour of charging.

I'm still eagerly awaiting explanation on how this is going to work with terraced houses where there's about 40 houses on each side and people park how and where they want, and most importantly where the local council barely has enough money to fix the worst potholes. But suddenly they are going to dig up a 300 year old street to put down enough cabling and charging points for every car. My question is "with what mon…

Can lampposts be adapted?

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#22

Post by chrisseaton »

gambiting wrote: post #20
mft_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I’ve been lucky, but here in the EU, I’ve not yet found a non-Tesla charger that won’t charge my Tesla. And also, the mobility+ app (no affiliation) has dealt fine with multiple brands of charger.

You were definitely lucky. I've driven through Germany last summer and I couldn't find a single charger that worked, every single one required an app, one wouldn't accept my non-german card, second one didn't have a menu in English so I didn't know how to set it up, third one gave me an "unspecified error" and told me to ring their helpline, but upon calling them discovered they are closed on Sunday. So in the end I…

Germany seems to run an entirely independent and parallel cards and payments system to the rest of the world. Really frustrating.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#23

Post by sandworm101 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #18
sandworm101 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did exactly that this morning. I put gas in my car, paid at the pump, then walked in to buy a drink. I certainly wouldn't do that if people were waiting for the pump, but the option is there and used by drivers regularly.

When I Supercharge, I get a push notification that idle fees start ($1/minute) 5 minutes after the charge completes. Econ 101: Incentives matter

But think of the massive infrastructure that is required to facilitate that interaction. You have to own a phone. The phone has to connect to a network. You have to have a payment plan, presumably with a credit card/bank involved. Your car has to communicate with the charge point. The charge point has to have internet. There are just so many little things that need to be installed and maintained just to deliver a few pennies worth of electricity. An alternative is to install very small/free outlets on literally every spot (something common in cold climates already). That would cover much of daily commuting. The faster charging points could be relegated to highway stations outside of town centres. Then all that complexity, those points of failure, can be abandoned in favour of the simple century-old delivery of electricity over wires.

I do wonder how much electricity is used by these complex charging systems when they are not in use. How much does that charging point draw from the grid just to keep all its wifi/cell/internet systems running 24/7?

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#24

Post by gambiting »

chrisseaton wrote: post #21
gambiting wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still eagerly awaiting explanation on how this is going to work with terraced houses where there's about 40 houses on each side and people park how and where they want, and most importantly where the local council barely has enough money to fix the worst potholes. But suddenly they are going to dig up a 300 year old street to put down enough cabling and charging points for every car. My question is "with what mon…

Can lampposts be adapted?

Sure, but there's 4-6 of them on the street and probably 40-50 cars. That will work in short term, but not in 10+ years.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#25

Post by toomuchtodo »

sandworm101 wrote: post #23
toomuchtodo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I Supercharge, I get a push notification that idle fees start ($1/minute) 5 minutes after the charge completes. Econ 101: Incentives matter

But think of the massive infrastructure that is required to facilitate that interaction. You have to own a phone. The phone has to connect to a network. You have to have a payment plan, presumably with a credit card/bank involved. Your car has to communicate with the charge point. The charge point has to have internet. There are just so many little things that need to be installed and maintained just to deliver a few…

No, the vehicle auths with the EV charging station and my credit card is charged when the charge is complete. No phone, rfid tag, or app required.

Yes, 20amp 120V outlets are great for long term parking, like airports. Those can be unmetered. Anything else would be a level 3 fast charger like a supercharger, where you have to pay to cover the demand charges of 120kw-250kw current delivery in a short period of time (15-30 minutes). Remember, most people will charge overnight at home.

The electricity is the cheapest component, as you mention. You’re really just paying for the delivery infra. Regarding the idle electrical costs of signaling systems for charging stations, it’s minimal.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#26

Post by hannob »

ultimoo wrote: post #2

Not sure what's so surprising/interesting about this (I don't have a subscription to read the full article). This nugget in the introduction seems to summarize the tech behind this -- > Sensors installed in electric bays can be used to detect the presence of a vehicle and whether it is being used to recharge the car battery.

It's surprising because car drivers are used to the fact that rules are not or rarely enforced.

Just think about it: Technically it would be no big problem to enforce speed limits widely. The technology for speeding cameras isn't exceptionally complex, you could mass-produce them and deploy them basically in every street. I'm not aware of any country doing that.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#27

Post by im3w1l »

orev wrote: post #16
sandworm101 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did exactly that this morning. I put gas in my car, paid at the pump, then walked in to buy a drink. I certainly wouldn't do that if people were waiting for the pump, but the option is there and used by drivers regularly.

But you were a customer of the gas pump during that visit/session, so that example doesn’t apply. It would only apply if you used the pump area for parking, when other non-pump spaces were available, and you did not purchase fuel.

When he went in to buy a drink there was no need for his car to be buy the pump anymore. He had filled up and paid already. He remained only because it was more convinient than moving the car and then getting the drink. Depending on how many people were waiting and how long it took to get the drink, that was probably the right call.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#28

Post by telotortium »

hannob wrote: post #26
ultimoo wrote: post #2

Not sure what's so surprising/interesting about this (I don't have a subscription to read the full article). This nugget in the introduction seems to summarize the tech behind this -- > Sensors installed in electric bays can be used to detect the presence of a vehicle and whether it is being used to recharge the car battery.

It's surprising because car drivers are used to the fact that rules are not or rarely enforced. Just think about it: Technically it would be no big problem to enforce speed limits widely. The technology for speeding cameras isn't exceptionally complex, you could mass-produce them and deploy them basically in every street. I'm not aware of any country doing that.

Maybe not in the US, but in both France and China, to name two countries I've been to, speed cameras were obvious on the highways and actually sent out fines.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#29

Post by Scoundreller »

gambiting wrote: post #20
mft_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I’ve been lucky, but here in the EU, I’ve not yet found a non-Tesla charger that won’t charge my Tesla. And also, the mobility+ app (no affiliation) has dealt fine with multiple brands of charger.

You were definitely lucky. I've driven through Germany last summer and I couldn't find a single charger that worked, every single one required an app, one wouldn't accept my non-german card, second one didn't have a menu in English so I didn't know how to set it up, third one gave me an "unspecified error" and told me to ring their helpline, but upon calling them discovered they are closed on Sunday. So in the end I…

> discovered they are closed on Sunday.

I wouldn’t be surprised if their electric car charging infra was closed on Sunday because it doesn’t fall under the exemptions that gas stations and (some) manual car washes have.

Re: Smart spaces will fine petrol car owners illegally parking in electric bays

#30

Post by robertlagrant »

ehvatum wrote: post #9
sandworm101 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did exactly that this morning. I put gas in my car, paid at the pump, then walked in to buy a drink. I certainly wouldn't do that if people were waiting for the pump, but the option is there and used by drivers regularly.

Quiet, the UK will start fining for this too if they think of it.

And we should. This is obvious bad behaviour.
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