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The universe is expanding faster than expected

quantamagazine.org

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Re: The universe is expanding faster than expected

#21

Post by bartwe »

kiba wrote: post #12
eloff wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your optimism. I tend to be optimistic about the future myself. But there is no law of the universe that everything will work out ok. Only if we make the right decisions as a species and we don't get unlucky. I'm quite apprehensive that the great filter lies ahead - that technology accelerates too rapidly compared to our wisdom and we end up nearly destroying ourselves. We're getting the ability to progr…

What does it mean to not pass the great filter? Humanity or their successor stop existing?

We won't be there ourselves anyways...

Re: The universe is expanding faster than expected

#22

Post by horsawlarway »

User23 wrote: post #19

One thing that really frustrates me about cosmology, or at least popular science reporting and books, is a particular kind of lack of intellectual rigor. Specifically, even as a layman, it's clear that observation and model are being conflated. Cosmology is a science in the broadest sense of being a field of human knowledge, but it isn't a science the way that, for example, physics is. It would better be described as…

I agree with you here. A phrase that always echoes in my mind when discussing cosmology is

"All models are wrong - some models are useful"

The farther you venture from the verified useful section of a model (by which I mean - the farther you are from model predications that have been validated with observational evidence), the less you should trust it - ALL MODELS ARE WRONG!

And for most sciences - this isn't a huge deal - we can do lots of observational work easily right now. For cosmology... well - our observational data on the history of the universe it just astoundingly, mind-bogglingly, miniscule in comparison to the events we're interested in.

Re: The universe is expanding faster than expected

#23

Post by twic »

User23 wrote: post #19

One thing that really frustrates me about cosmology, or at least popular science reporting and books, is a particular kind of lack of intellectual rigor. Specifically, even as a layman, it's clear that observation and model are being conflated. Cosmology is a science in the broadest sense of being a field of human knowledge, but it isn't a science the way that, for example, physics is. It would better be described as…

> it's clear that observation and model are being conflated

How so?

> [cosmology] isn't a science the way that, for example, physics is.

Why not?

> I'm sure many will disagree with this factually more accurate description, because of the emotional role their ideation of science plays in their lives

Perhaps i will once i understand what you're going on about.

Re: The universe is expanding faster than expected

#24

Post by lisper »

User23 wrote: post #19

One thing that really frustrates me about cosmology, or at least popular science reporting and books, is a particular kind of lack of intellectual rigor. Specifically, even as a layman, it's clear that observation and model are being conflated. Cosmology is a science in the broadest sense of being a field of human knowledge, but it isn't a science the way that, for example, physics is. It would better be described as…

No, you are absolutely wrong here. But before I explain why I need to ask a question: are you by chance a young-earth creationist? Because your rhetoric here is very similar to that employed by YECs. (The reason I ask is that my explanation is going to be different if you are not a YEC than if you are.)

Re: The universe is expanding faster than expected

#25

Post by cubano »

User23 wrote: post #19

One thing that really frustrates me about cosmology, or at least popular science reporting and books, is a particular kind of lack of intellectual rigor. Specifically, even as a layman, it's clear that observation and model are being conflated. Cosmology is a science in the broadest sense of being a field of human knowledge, but it isn't a science the way that, for example, physics is. It would better be described as…

Wasn't there a time, not so long ago in fact (pre-1920's), where almost all your beloved physics models, beside Netwonian gravities, were wrong as well?

So Astronomy, as a "hard science", is around 100 years behind...what's the big deal with that?

Re: The universe is expanding faster than expected

#26

Post by twic »

xwdv wrote: post #18
ChrisLTD wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is no afterlife, then oblivion is our inevitable destiny.

No afterlife, no prelife, no life.

Reminds me of a Stephen Baxter story: http://www.sixwordstories.net/2009/08/big-bang-no-god-fadeou...

(the story is - for once, literally - in the URL)

Re: The universe is expanding faster than expected

#30

Post by AnimalMuppet »

When this article talked about the ladder of standard candles, I started to wonder: when using the brightness of supernovae between near and far galaxies, what about intergalactic dust absorbing some of the light? Wouldn't that mess up the ability to just straighforwardly determine the distance from the brightness in a 1/r^2 way?
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