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An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

mattstoller.substack.com

21–30 of 113 posts

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#22
post #11
post #9

> it gave away its new product for no or low cost to existing clients, and bundled it with existing product lines. In a society with functional antitrust laws, such activity would be illegal. But alas. I find this statement highly suspect. What kind of world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas. I see Microsoft integrating Teams into their productivity product bundle as feature; not a bug. O…

The more integration, the less competition. The software competitive scene is fairly good at the moment, and the open web remains an escape hatch, but the risk of too tight integration is that startups become impossible.

> The software competitive scene is fairly good at the moment, and the open web remains an escape hatch

Can't agree really. On the operating system front, it's Linux-only at this point. And the "Linux community" has completed its long way to the dark side, with RedHat paying devs to subvert the portability Unix/POSIX has always stood for, with systemd and the rush to containers. For a perspective, consider Docker was originally a way to equalize distro-specific libs and quirks; RedHat and Kubernetes essentially deprecating Docker (and adding unbelievable amounts of code to replace it as infrastructure) just means a central entity calls the shots now. When the problem of non-uniform libs is entirely created by RedHat and too many distros themselves. In reality, starved core F/OSS packages haven't changed in a decade or more. But enterprise cloud deals are just too sweet, so change for change's sake it is. In that context, it makes sense that RedHat has shutdown CentOS now.

On the web, it's even worse. There are no "browser vendors" except Google and Apple left, and Google is gatekeeping so-called web standards. Recently, HTTP and DNS is up for grabs as well. Hail monopolies.

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#23
post #9

> it gave away its new product for no or low cost to existing clients, and bundled it with existing product lines. In a society with functional antitrust laws, such activity would be illegal. But alas. I find this statement highly suspect. What kind of world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas. I see Microsoft integrating Teams into their productivity product bundle as feature; not a bug. O…

> world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas.

The same world where they dictate what is intellectual property

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#24
post #7
post #2

Substack = Medium x LinkedIn

Yeah I’m confused. What is this substack and how did it become so prevalent so fast? Or maybe there are more substack posts on HN these days?

A lot of hate for Substack, probably because of how fucked up Medium became. But honestly, the Substack model is much nicer:

1) you arent charged if youre a writer, de facto.

2) yes, they provide stuff that costs money if you want to use them (custom subdomains cost a one time fixed cost of $50)

3) you, as a content creator, can choose if you want to enable monetization, at which point the readers must pay to read your content, but still - you arent explicitly charged to post stuff (which is what happens in the Medium model, implicitly).

one thing Substack should do is enable webhooks so that if you are running a webapp and you want to give your paid subscribers access to an 'exclusive blog', you can tell substack that user X with email addr Y is a paid subscriber to MyService ABC, and then instead of requiring payments to Substack, it would just let them through. Not sure how the user/unit economics would work here, but I enabled a Substack blog for a new SaaS I'm building, and I want to make it pay-only, but I'm already using Stripe to handle subscriptions/payments and I don't want my users to have to pay twice in order to see the blog (while already paying for the APIs and services provided by the site.) and also use the service web app as well as the service web API.

@cjbest, @sethbannon, @pg if youre listening I think this would be a good thing to prioritize: webhook to allow subscribers for X's SaaS/startup/whatever to be implicitly include in the set of "paying Substack users" instead of requiring some app's user to pay a second time (for some non-egregious fee, maybe a small percentage of the user subsription fee for X's pricing model. Maybe even Stripe & Substack could chat about a bidirectional integration to make this seamless, and even bake in some of the costs).

if you like these ideas you should totally reach me at the addresses listed on my keybase on my profile, I am super awesome and its 4:24am EST (my location) so clearly I'm motivated.

Cheers

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#25
post #16
post #9

> it gave away its new product for no or low cost to existing clients, and bundled it with existing product lines. In a society with functional antitrust laws, such activity would be illegal. But alas. I find this statement highly suspect. What kind of world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas. I see Microsoft integrating Teams into their productivity product bundle as feature; not a bug. O…

Agreed. It sounds like the author is envisioning a society where regulators have a hell of a lot of power- would every price change a company made need to be given the OK? I guess the litagators would have a field day. Doesn't every profitable company have a monopoly on its niche space? Not all monopolies are equal

For physical products we have anti-dumping laws. You can't abuse your monopoly power to sell products below cost in order to take out competition.

We need something like this for software products.

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#26
post #9

> it gave away its new product for no or low cost to existing clients, and bundled it with existing product lines. In a society with functional antitrust laws, such activity would be illegal. But alas. I find this statement highly suspect. What kind of world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas. I see Microsoft integrating Teams into their productivity product bundle as feature; not a bug. O…

I have no idea how that happened, but one day, I found Teams suddenly automatically installed on my spouses computer; and not only auto-installed, but it auto-started on Windows start. How? Why? It was probably bundled with Office and/or Windows. MS got news-breaking fine for far less with Netscape before. But, nobody cares in 2020.

Microsoft was auto installing Teams with auto startup on Windows Server 2019 for a while. And you could only access settings to turn off auto startup if you logged in or changed some registry settings.

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#27
post #9

> it gave away its new product for no or low cost to existing clients, and bundled it with existing product lines. In a society with functional antitrust laws, such activity would be illegal. But alas. I find this statement highly suspect. What kind of world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas. I see Microsoft integrating Teams into their productivity product bundle as feature; not a bug. O…

I have no idea how that happened, but one day, I found Teams suddenly automatically installed on my spouses computer; and not only auto-installed, but it auto-started on Windows start. How? Why? It was probably bundled with Office and/or Windows. MS got news-breaking fine for far less with Netscape before. But, nobody cares in 2020.

Seems like MS literally installed this about two hours ago for me with a forced update on Win10

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#28
post #9

> it gave away its new product for no or low cost to existing clients, and bundled it with existing product lines. In a society with functional antitrust laws, such activity would be illegal. But alas. I find this statement highly suspect. What kind of world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas. I see Microsoft integrating Teams into their productivity product bundle as feature; not a bug. O…

Many people using Outlook run Teams meetings, because it's just one button click away in Outlook. Compare to others where you have to go to a different tool and create a meeting and copy-paste a link.

The antitrust way would be to have Outlook have buttons for a lot of different meeting services out of the box. Many don't require installing any software (Google meet for example). It's all just API:s.

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#29
post #9

> it gave away its new product for no or low cost to existing clients, and bundled it with existing product lines. In a society with functional antitrust laws, such activity would be illegal. But alas. I find this statement highly suspect. What kind of world do we want to live in where regulators delineate product areas. I see Microsoft integrating Teams into their productivity product bundle as feature; not a bug. O…

I have no idea how that happened, but one day, I found Teams suddenly automatically installed on my spouses computer; and not only auto-installed, but it auto-started on Windows start. How? Why? It was probably bundled with Office and/or Windows. MS got news-breaking fine for far less with Netscape before. But, nobody cares in 2020.

It should be well known by now that if you're running Windows 10, Microsoft is your system administrator, and can control (at least technically) exactly what runs on your computer. Unless maybe if you really put time/effort into stopping that (if it's still possible at all).

This is not meant to be judgemental. I'm actually of the opinion this is better in general than leaving sysadmin duties to the general public, which was largely the situation in the 1990s / early 2000s. But outsourcing this to Microsoft does of course have it's downsides, like you just experienced.

Re: An Economy of Godzillas: Salesforce, Slack, and Microsoft

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I work, software purchasing is outsourced to a third-party company. I can appreciate the value this provides. And part of the reason why I hate the trend of turning everything into services is that regular (middle-class and below) people don't get to outsource the increasing amount of relationships they have to enter into.

I too find it exhausting to manage all my subscriptions, communications, and such. I wish I could just hit "cancel all" and restart them as I needed them.

It really feels like there should be a well-funded startup attempting to tackle this problem by now.

A central service where you can easily manage many subscriptions, with integrations into other websites. There are a lot things I would pay for if I didn't have to go through the process of creating and managing yet another account. If it was just a one-click add/remove.

News websites come to mind. I would also use a "buy access to this article for 50 cents" feature. It just has to be frictionless.

The major players might not want to give up the money from people buying subscriptions and not using them much or forgetting to cancel them, but that seems like a lunch ready to be eaten.

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