Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#21

Post by rs999gti » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 5:10 PM UTC

chrismckleroy wrote: post #3

coldtea wrote: post #2

> threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy There was no inherent "supremacy", just one created by a bunch of companies being together. Did SV municipalities do anything else to deserve it? There are better places, with more rental space, more resources, better weather, and so on, plus WFH is here to stay...

“Better weather” I can’t help but laugh. One of five Mediterranean climates worldwide, built on apricot orchards, formerly home to one of the most diverse animal and again ecosystems before the arrival of whites. It’s really hard to beat the weather in Silicon Valley. It’s almost non seasonal, anything grows. The diversity currently of this area is very high, it’s the home of top universities, between the two cross p…

> The diversity currently of this area is very high, it’s the home of top universities, between the two cross pollination of ideas happens non stop.

This is sort of the argument that management gives to having people in the office.

People need to be at a physical location together for cross-pollination and idea growth.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#22

Post by fumar » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

briga wrote: post #12

chrismckleroy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Better weather” I can’t help but laugh. One of five Mediterranean climates worldwide, built on apricot orchards, formerly home to one of the most diverse animal and again ecosystems before the arrival of whites. It’s really hard to beat the weather in Silicon Valley. It’s almost non seasonal, anything grows. The diversity currently of this area is very high, it’s the home of top universities, between the two cross p…

I think California has created this myth that constant sunshine = perfect weather. I personally like things like summer thunderstorms, snowy winters, mild cloudy days, and rain. It's definitely not bad weather, but the lack of variety and endless dry smoggy summer months can get pretty old.

The myth is from people that moved to California from other states. I moved from the the midwest to Southern California. I can't see myself going back to harsh winters and extreme summers. My overall well being has increased and the sunny days helpf with consistent mood levels. This is coming from someone who loved the four seasons and claimed they were required. I realized that humans populate most climates in the world and there isn't one size fits all.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#23

Post by claydavisss » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

ijidak wrote: post #4

There is a supremacy, but the idea that it is threatened is hyperbolic, designed to get readers. This is a small shift in the grand scheme. It might help create new centers. But the gravity is going to be around the universities and infrastructure that is unique to the area. Shifts like that rarely happen overnight. Especially not because of something as temporary as a pandemic.

The "shift" has already been happening for a decade or more, covid just created a few visible outlier migrations that have pushed the conversation into the open.

At this point, Netflix is the only major company I know of that that still locates 100% of software work in the Bay Area.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#24

Post by ghaff » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

bigyikes wrote: post #13

As it happens, tomorrow I’m putting in my 30-day notice to terminate my lease and leave the Bay. (And I’m paying 2 additional months rent in fees to do so) Not being tied to the office fundamentally changes the calculus of choosing where to live. There just aren’t good reasons to live here anymore for so many of us. Even if you enjoy the area, chances are you can get a better deal by moving just a bit further away. A…

There's a lot to like about many areas of California. Which ones may depend on your weather, cultural, etc. preferences. But Silicon Valley proper I find not particularly appealing; housing costs are only part of the reason. (SF itself has well-documented pluses and minuses.) I don't live or work in CA/SV. But if I were in SV but no longer needed to commute, I might well stay in CA but I'd probably move somewhere outside of SV commuting distance.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#25

Post by UncleOxidant » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

chrismckleroy wrote: post #3

coldtea wrote: post #2

> threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy There was no inherent "supremacy", just one created by a bunch of companies being together. Did SV municipalities do anything else to deserve it? There are better places, with more rental space, more resources, better weather, and so on, plus WFH is here to stay...

“Better weather” I can’t help but laugh. One of five Mediterranean climates worldwide, built on apricot orchards, formerly home to one of the most diverse animal and again ecosystems before the arrival of whites. It’s really hard to beat the weather in Silicon Valley. It’s almost non seasonal, anything grows. The diversity currently of this area is very high, it’s the home of top universities, between the two cross p…

Yeah, that one didn't make sense to me either. Lived in Oregon for the last... oh, wow, times flies... 30 years and I'd never consider moving back to the Bay Area. Except, if suddenly there were about 1/2 the people there and housing prices somehow went to reasonable levels. The weather is generally so pleasant there.

> anything grows

I'm a gardener. Wherever I go I grow a garden. When I lived in the South Bay the soil in our backyard was AMAZING. Never seen soil like that anywhere else. You didn't have to do much of anything to grow stuff. It was easy to dig. It was like it was loam all the way down. So yes, the climate plays a big part of that 'anything grows', but so does the soil there which is exceptional.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#26

Post by garden_hermit » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 5:13 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #2

> threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy There was no inherent "supremacy", just one created by a bunch of companies being together. Did SV municipalities do anything else to deserve it? There are better places, with more rental space, more resources, better weather, and so on, plus WFH is here to stay...

> There was no inherent "supremacy", just one created by a bunch of companies being together.

That is why they have supremacy, though. Agglomeration effects are a big deal. Its why New York has remained a center of trade and finance for centuries, and why Detroit remains a hub for the automotive industry despite the city's bankruptcy.

No matter what brought the companies there in the first place, just "being together" is a huge deal and is hard to replicate elsewhere. We will see if tech will be an exception, but my prior is that proximity is important, even with WFH, and that Silicon Valley will remain the national center of tech companies.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#27

Post by jkaplowitz » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

chrismckleroy wrote: post #3

coldtea wrote: post #2

> threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy There was no inherent "supremacy", just one created by a bunch of companies being together. Did SV municipalities do anything else to deserve it? There are better places, with more rental space, more resources, better weather, and so on, plus WFH is here to stay...

“Better weather” I can’t help but laugh. One of five Mediterranean climates worldwide, built on apricot orchards, formerly home to one of the most diverse animal and again ecosystems before the arrival of whites. It’s really hard to beat the weather in Silicon Valley. It’s almost non seasonal, anything grows. The diversity currently of this area is very high, it’s the home of top universities, between the two cross p…

> It’s almost non seasonal

You've just described why I don't like Silicon Valley weather, though indeed the easy and plentiful agriculture is a nice aspect aside from the scarcity of water which often ends up prioritizing farmers of things like almonds over actual residents. Where I live now, I get to enjoy all four seasons and don't have to consider water as a locally scarce resource.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#28

Post by Yetanfou » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

rs999gti wrote: post #16

chrismckleroy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Better weather” I can’t help but laugh. One of five Mediterranean climates worldwide, built on apricot orchards, formerly home to one of the most diverse animal and again ecosystems before the arrival of whites. It’s really hard to beat the weather in Silicon Valley. It’s almost non seasonal, anything grows. The diversity currently of this area is very high, it’s the home of top universities, between the two cross p…

> before the arrival of whites. Jesus, bro, why'd you throw this in?

Because it is the modern-day sacrifice, the equivalent of the medieval indulgence or monopoly's get-out-of-jail card.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#29

Post by wavefunction » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

cam0 wrote: post #18

solumos wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Better"'s subjective - some people prefer extreme seasons (Midwest), 4 distinct seasons (East coast), 50s year-round (Northwest/SF), or sunny/70s most of the year (Miami? LA? Texas? Not a lot of experience personally).

Miami/LA/Texas more like 90's most of the year

At least in Austin and North of there, you start seeing 90s in April but average temperature of 90F+ is Jun-September. https://weatherspark.com/y/8004/Average-Weather-in-Austin-Te... I can't speak for South Texas as I am unfamiliar with the climate beyond some occasional visits.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#30

Post by solumos » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 5:15 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #2

> threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy There was no inherent "supremacy", just one created by a bunch of companies being together. Did SV municipalities do anything else to deserve it? There are better places, with more rental space, more resources, better weather, and so on, plus WFH is here to stay...

I'd say the jury's still out on WFH. Once more companies put their cost-of-living adjustments in place, I think a lot of employees will change their minds. Additionally, I think many companies won't go "fully remote" - a lot of them will move to a "hybrid" model (e.g. 3 days in-office per week).