US ends era of emotional support animals on planes • Hacker News Board

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#21

Post by Spivak » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:25 PM UTC

TigeriusKirk wrote: post #11

hpoe wrote: post #5

So something I only recently found out myself is that there is actual no real requirements in order to register an animal as an "emotional support animal", I found that out after my sister registered her dog as an emotional support animal to get around her apartments "no pets allowed" rule. Another interesting thing is that I have a friend who builds apartments in a college town for students. The apartments for years…

Just go off on a tangent a bit, but isn't "emotional support animal" pretty much the definition of "pet"?

Yes, but the difference is the animal is a prescribed as part of a course of treatment for someone's mental health.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#22

Post by claytongulick » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:25 PM UTC

devteambravo wrote: post #6

onetimemanytime wrote: post #2

not to be jerk or anything, but if I said that a cow or an elephant is the only thing that soothes me so accommodate them in a plane? How many other people should be inconvenienced by my issues?

So let's just make assumptions then. Disabled people should have a case prepared, and always be ready to argue it in front of people. Upon challenge, by people "inconvenienced" by your accommodations, you should be able to spend 2 minutes showcasing your disability, how it came to be, and plead for said accommodations. Maybe you could edit that "not to be a jerk" bit to "I'm a jerk, hence:".

When "inconvenienced" means a trip to the ER or landing a plane because you have severe allergies (like me) then the definition of who is being a jerk in the "emotional support animal" situation is a big more vague, no?

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#23

Post by kepler1 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:25 PM UTC

Good. This was rife with abuse from people gaming the system, and delegitimizing the use of support dogs by handicapped people who actually needed help.

And the airlines would do nothing because they couldn't be seen as the bad guy (or it's just unfashionable to have rules that need to be respected these days).

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#24

Post by gnopgnip » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #10

hpoe wrote: post #5

So something I only recently found out myself is that there is actual no real requirements in order to register an animal as an "emotional support animal", I found that out after my sister registered her dog as an emotional support animal to get around her apartments "no pets allowed" rule. Another interesting thing is that I have a friend who builds apartments in a college town for students. The apartments for years…

Yep. The thing that bothered me more than anything about this is that you aren't allowed to ask for any type of verification, so people can just walk in with them anywhere. Never made sense to me. At least to park in a handicap space you need a hang tag or a special license plate. Why not something simple like a special collar tag or card in your wallet?

Emotional support animals don't get any special rights outside of housing, and in limited cases air and train travel. They can't be brought into areas pets are prohibited. You do need to provide verification from a physician or mental health provider to your landlord or the airline for an ESA.

Service dogs(or rarely horses) can generally go anywhere the owner can go including areas pets are prohibited. There is no formal verification, but the owner of the property or their employee can ask if this is a service dog that is required because of a disability, and what tasks it is trained to perform. If it is a cat or other animal, or not trained to perform a task, just to provide support it is not a service dog and they can be refused entry and trespassed.

Registration of service dogs would disenfranchise the disabled. About twice as many don't have photo ID as the general public, many do not own a car or have access to reliable transportation, even relatively small costs can be prohibitive

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#25

Post by pjmorris » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:34 PM UTC

FTA, 'Trade group Airlines for America'... how many trade groups are there? What does it take to form one? What kind of influence do they carry?

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#26

Post by CADBOT » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #18

brightball wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. The thing that bothered me more than anything about this is that you aren't allowed to ask for any type of verification, so people can just walk in with them anywhere. Never made sense to me. At least to park in a handicap space you need a hang tag or a special license plate. Why not something simple like a special collar tag or card in your wallet?

You are absolutely allowed to ask for verification that an animal is a real service animal, but the people who have been conflating emotional support animals with service animals want you to believe that you can't. Service animals have to be licensed, trained to perform a task or duty, and be easily identifiable. Misrepresenting an untrained and unlicensed animal as a service animal is fraud and illegal.

Actually, they don't need to be licensed. The only thing a business can ask is what tasks is the service dog trained to be formed.

I do think it would be better off for everyone if there was a license though. I've known people with legitimate service dogs who have had that opinion even. They wish they had a document to prove their legitimacy, as they are constantly asked for a document that doesn't exist.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#27

Post by raztogt21 » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

happytoexplain wrote: post #9

onetimemanytime wrote: post #2

not to be jerk or anything, but if I said that a cow or an elephant is the only thing that soothes me so accommodate them in a plane? How many other people should be inconvenienced by my issues?

None, since it would probably be deemed infeasible. I think the tendency of engineers to extrapolate "rules" to extreme cases creates a lot of noise. Rules in law, business, and society are not the same as rules in engineering - they allow for subjectivity.

"Rules in law, business, and society are not the same as rules in engineering - they allow for subjectivity." Thanks for sharing this thought.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#28

Post by seany » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

meowfly wrote: post #8

I wish there were better options for people to travel with their pets over long distances. There are plenty of horror stories of pets who have died in cargo. I would be willing to pay for a seat, or even a row, to take my dog on a cross country flight. Setting aside the absurd cases, like emotional support peacocks, I think a lot of the emotional support animal shenanigans are simply people not wanting to cargo their…

I have never abused this, but I have flown with dogs a few times. It is such a huge pain in the ass. To make things worse, a lot of airline reps (you often have to call to book) really have no idea what the real rules are. Some legs have cage size restrictions, some airports have temp controlled areas, some don't (so you have to pay attention to the weather at lay overs)... the list goes on.

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#29

Post by jessaustin » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

1996 wrote: post #15

I will sorely regret never using this opportunity to fly home for thanksgiving with my emotional support turkey - that would later go on to provide emotional support for the whole family https://mashable.com/2016/01/11/turkey-therapy-pet-airplane/

Frozen turkeys fare perfectly well in regular checked luggage. High altitude is cold, so you don't need a cooler. One year long ago I celebrated Thanksgiving in a nation that has no turkeys...

Re: US ends era of emotional support animals on planes

#30

Post by gravitas » Thu, Dec 03, 2020, 7:40 PM UTC

meowfly wrote: post #8

I wish there were better options for people to travel with their pets over long distances. There are plenty of horror stories of pets who have died in cargo. I would be willing to pay for a seat, or even a row, to take my dog on a cross country flight. Setting aside the absurd cases, like emotional support peacocks, I think a lot of the emotional support animal shenanigans are simply people not wanting to cargo their…

About a decade ago I used a service "We Move Pets", who at the time was specializing in transporting pets across North America (CA/US) for pro sports players, NBA and NHL etc. It wasn't cheap (and required I go get special vaccinations and paperwork, understandable) but it worked out great - they were passing by my city and had room on the van to take on another pet to the same destination I was going.

Looks like they're out of business now after a quick Google, but maybe it'll give you some hints where to look for clues - there has to be more of these companies out there doing this kind of thing, as I was led to believe was popular/common (?) for pro sports players to want their pet with them at training camps & such (hearsay by me). As mentioned, it was not cheap but I was also paying for a kennel at the destination for a few days until I could get there myself.