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Messenger API Updates for Europe

developers.facebook.com

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Re: Messenger API Updates for Europe

#21

Post by trumpeta »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #20
3np wrote: post #8

So instead of making their system less-privacy-invasive (which I have seen no indication should be impossible wrt the APIs mentioned here), they just shut down services where this is regulated. Not surprised, but there's no way to spin this in a way that doesn't make Facebook look shady and bad. So much for "working with regulators".

To honest, I think this is probably the begining of the end for Facebook. I foresee that they'll be forced to reduce services in Europe repeatedly. It'll be interesting to see what takes its place.

they'll end up preying on the people in 3rd world countries that don't have strong privacy legislation. Same way as Phillip Morris did with cigarettes...

Re: Messenger API Updates for Europe

#22

Post by nindalf »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #15
mgraczyk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

epd

Sorry but epd (ePrivacy Directive)[0] is from 2002 with last amendments in 2009 and has nothing to do with this. There's a draft for "ePrivacy Regulation"[1][2] introduced in 2017 that looks to replace ePrivacy Directive, but it's still in a draft and discussions stage. There's no guarantee it'll become a law. [0] - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32... [1] - https://www.mckinsey.com/busines…

Sorry but you’re mistaken. The original ePD applied to messaging services, ie, SMS providers. What changed this year is that a few months ago the EU decided that providers like Messenger should be covered by the regulation too.

Source - worked on ePD compliance.

Re: Messenger API Updates for Europe

#23

Post by jon-wood »

pjc50 wrote: post #19

This is desperately short on explanation? The very high granularity suggests that some features are more privacy-invasive than others, but not why that is. (Also, listing the UK under EEA is .. complicated and subject to change in the next few weeks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_of_the_United_Kingd... )

While come January the UK won't be part of the EEA, at least initially GDPR will continue to apply as most EU law has been grandfathered into UK law post-transition.

Re: Messenger API Updates for Europe

#24

Post by lucideer »

remus wrote: post #18
rbinv wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't really say very much. What new rules? Why the API?

Just speculating, but it could be to do with the recent ruling that the EU-US Privacy Shield data sharing agreement was invalid https://easygdpr.eu/2020/08/privacy-shield-invalidated-what-... This means that data sharing between the US and EU is a lot more complicated, as the EU ruling basically says that US data protection regulations are not sufficient to comply with the requirements set out in the GDPR.

Some further context on the case, with dates: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/transatlantic...

Re: Messenger API Updates for Europe

#25

Post by legulere »

pjc50 wrote: post #19

This is desperately short on explanation? The very high granularity suggests that some features are more privacy-invasive than others, but not why that is. (Also, listing the UK under EEA is .. complicated and subject to change in the next few weeks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_of_the_United_Kingd... )

EU laws and regulations still apply to the UK. It’s not clear though what the situation will be starting with the first of January next year.

Re: Messenger API Updates for Europe

#26

Post by grishka »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #20
3np wrote: post #8

So instead of making their system less-privacy-invasive (which I have seen no indication should be impossible wrt the APIs mentioned here), they just shut down services where this is regulated. Not surprised, but there's no way to spin this in a way that doesn't make Facebook look shady and bad. So much for "working with regulators".

To honest, I think this is probably the begining of the end for Facebook. I foresee that they'll be forced to reduce services in Europe repeatedly. It'll be interesting to see what takes its place.

It'll be definitely interesting to see what Facebook is going to do if one of those bills that would require it to federate and/or provide an open API gets passed.

Re: Messenger API Updates for Europe

#27

Post by Dayshine »

nindalf wrote: post #22
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but epd (ePrivacy Directive)[0] is from 2002 with last amendments in 2009 and has nothing to do with this. There's a draft for "ePrivacy Regulation"[1][2] introduced in 2017 that looks to replace ePrivacy Directive, but it's still in a draft and discussions stage. There's no guarantee it'll become a law. [0] - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32... [1] - https://www.mckinsey.com/busines…

Sorry but you’re mistaken. The original ePD applied to messaging services, ie, SMS providers. What changed this year is that a few months ago the EU decided that providers like Messenger should be covered by the regulation too. Source - worked on ePD compliance.

Could this be why Google are withdrawing their free phone calls on Google home devices in the UK as well?

Re: Messenger API Updates for Europe

#28

Post by HatchedLake721 »

nindalf wrote: post #22
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but epd (ePrivacy Directive)[0] is from 2002 with last amendments in 2009 and has nothing to do with this. There's a draft for "ePrivacy Regulation"[1][2] introduced in 2017 that looks to replace ePrivacy Directive, but it's still in a draft and discussions stage. There's no guarantee it'll become a law. [0] - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32... [1] - https://www.mckinsey.com/busines…

Sorry but you’re mistaken. The original ePD applied to messaging services, ie, SMS providers. What changed this year is that a few months ago the EU decided that providers like Messenger should be covered by the regulation too. Source - worked on ePD compliance.

Thanks!

But I don't understand how ePD with no changes from 2009 can suddenly include Facebook and others? Unless there have been other regulations passed?

I can't find anything about ePD changes that forces Facebook to do this, all I can find is the upcoming ePR (ePrivacy Regulation) that will affect Facebook and others, but it hasn't been passed yet.

I haven't heard of any privacy/GDPR/ePD changes recently other than the EU-US Privacy Shield invalidation.

Is there anything I can read on the changes you're talking about?

Re: Messenger API Updates for Europe

#29

Post by the8472 »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #14
3np wrote: post #8

So instead of making their system less-privacy-invasive (which I have seen no indication should be impossible wrt the APIs mentioned here), they just shut down services where this is regulated. Not surprised, but there's no way to spin this in a way that doesn't make Facebook look shady and bad. So much for "working with regulators".

It does say: "We are currently working to restore these features and will continue to update this document and the changelog section with the details as they are available." Doesn't this suggest that they aren't being shut-down?

Various websites not available in europe are saying stuff like

> Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market.

and have done so for years.

Facebook's "currently" may be worth as much as the "engaged" and "committed" of those sites.

Re: Messenger API Updates for Europe

#30

Post by red_admiral »

asutekku wrote: post #17
bzb6 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think the APIs could be changed to comply? Maybe there’s no way to implement what they used to do legally.

You can see what API calls do not work on the listed page. Most of those should not require any privacy breaking features so it should absolutely be possible to implement them legally. They just don't like to do so.

This is just speculation on my part, but if facebook implemented these API calls in a privacy-respecting way for the EU market, then it would be very easy for the US government to suggest that the already-existing privacy-respecting version should be used in their jurisdiction too. Maybe that's what facebook wants to avoid?
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