React php is worth checking out. Async stuff like websockets and non blocking redis subscriptions.
PHP 8
21–30 of 273 posts
Re: PHP 8
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
'foobar' is coerced into a number, which fails for the obvious reason. So it becomes 0, which means the expression is "0 == 0". Terrible, terrible, behaviour but there are lots of similar examples in PHP because it evolved over time rather than being designed as-is. Some of these things are being fixed over time, like this very example, others can't/won't be.
I see. This change prompts me as something that could break a lot of code running on web servers where the sysadmin updates to PHP8 assuming it will be backwards compatible. I wonder if they did any code searching to see how widely used such expressions are in the wild.
I don't think anyone reading the migration guide [0] is going to assume their app/lib is backwards compatible without some effort.
Re: PHP 8
#23Php was my first language I learned 15 years ago. On that way I really started to hate it because of all it's quirks. Many of those have been fixed and nowadays I really enjoy it again and it's my goto language for any web project. It really hits a pragmatic sweetspot. It's really easy to deploy and frameworks like symfony give you all the power like rails but without the magic.
Same here, started off with PHP around a decade ago and couldn't wait to move to another server-side language. Nowadays it's much nicer to work with (as long as you avoid the warts) and PHP 8 looks to deliver another slew of welcome upgrades. Only downside is that there does seem to be quite a lot of (non-trivial) deprecations which is understandable but I wonder how long it'll take for 8 to percolate into production…
Every single deprecation is a wart being removed, none of them are a python 2->3 kind of issue (it worked just fine but now I need to work to move it to the new stuff !), and it's all easily fixable in your code with minimal effort (but decent amount of time ... if you've not bothered to clean up warnings for the past decades).
The cases that are not replacable easily are things that should never have been written ever.
Re: PHP 8
#24> 0 == 'foobar' // true That's PHP7 behaviour that's updated in 8 to return false. I'm not a PHP basher, I really like it these days, but why the heck was that example ever evaluating to true?
I'm kind of surprised they'd change a core language semantic, even in a major update... won't this make upgrading to PHP8 for a large codebase hard to do with confidence?
Re: PHP 8
#25Though I still wish they officially support async I/O, this is an improvement, excited about this!
Re: PHP 8
#26Php was my first language I learned 15 years ago. On that way I really started to hate it because of all it's quirks. Many of those have been fixed and nowadays I really enjoy it again and it's my goto language for any web project. It really hits a pragmatic sweetspot. It's really easy to deploy and frameworks like symfony give you all the power like rails but without the magic.
What do you mean without the magic?
Re: PHP 8
#27Apparently some of the deprecations will make this the most backward compatibility breaking version jump of PHP since V4 to V5. (Read a german interview here: https://www.heise.de/news/PHP-8-im-Experten-Check-Der-erwart... ) There's a long report on Wordpress and PHP 8 and it's not pretty: https://developer.yoast.com/blog/the-2020-wordpress-and-php-...
Reading the list of things that worry them makes it clear that it's not so much php is breaking bc than it is wordpress lack of cleaning and linting for so long catching up to them. I mean seriously the first thing they list as a worry is that arithmetic operators will now throw an error when one (and only one) of their operand is an array or resource (eg array + array support remains, it's really int + array or stri…
> This is literally a case that makes no sense in the code ever,
Speaking as someone that hates PHP but still appreciates that it has its uses: You’re speaking from one perspective. There are others. That operation is perfectly valid and well-defined in Matlab where it increments all members of the matrix/vector by the scalar.
Re: PHP 8
#28I find it really weird that the match expression is strict comparison, but everywhere else it's loose comparison. Don't get me wrong, I prefer strict comparison, and prefer strongly typed languages because of it, I just feel that this is a strange design choice.
In addition, the @ operator seems to have functionality changed, and there is plenty of other backwards incompatible changes to go along with it, and yet, one of the main reasons to not choice the @ symbol for annotation/attributes was because of backwards incompatibilities. Personally, I find the introduced syntax for attributes terrible, especially when @ is well recognised in the php community thanks to phpdoc annotations.
Re: PHP 8
#29> 0 == 'foobar' // true That's PHP7 behaviour that's updated in 8 to return false. I'm not a PHP basher, I really like it these days, but why the heck was that example ever evaluating to true?
'foobar' is coerced into a number, which fails for the obvious reason. So it becomes 0, which means the expression is "0 == 0". Terrible, terrible, behaviour but there are lots of similar examples in PHP because it evolved over time rather than being designed as-is. Some of these things are being fixed over time, like this very example, others can't/won't be.
In the absence of strict type checking it would be terrible, but == performs a loose comparison, and "foobar" cannot cast to any other number than 0. Perl will go about it the exact same way. Contrast this against strict comparison, "0" === 0, which will evaluate as false.
Re: PHP 8
#30Php was my first language I learned 15 years ago. On that way I really started to hate it because of all it's quirks. Many of those have been fixed and nowadays I really enjoy it again and it's my goto language for any web project. It really hits a pragmatic sweetspot. It's really easy to deploy and frameworks like symfony give you all the power like rails but without the magic.
I must be very picky, because to this day I still don't like it at all. It sucks less than it used to maybe, but if I compare it to other languages, I still would rather use anything else.