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Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

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Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#21

Post by sjg007 »

dcolkitt wrote: post #8

The biggest thing from the employer side is that the cost of a single bad hire can be potentially enormous. This is a combination of legal (threat of wrongful termination lawsuits, COBRA) and cultural (nobody likes to feel like a jerk boss, morale problems among the remaining employees). The rule of thumb among managers is don't hire anybody unless you're 90% sure they'll work out for at least a year. That creates a…

This single bad hire myth needs to die. It's just simply not true. Organizations should have feedback loops in place to monitor and mitigate the issue. And if you don't, then the person doing the hiring should take on that responsibility. This is the cost of doing business and should be factored in.

Transactional employment exists in FAANGs and other big tech. They are called contractors.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#22

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

x87678r wrote: post #7

On a related note changing tech stacks and industries is hugely more difficult than I expected. I started in C++ in a steel company and moving to Java with Financial services was so different it was like starting from scratch. Now I'm trying to move more JS/Python in tech land and again its much harder than I expected just to get basic tooling, workflow done, let alone trying to get someone to hire you.

I don't know why you're being downvoted but I found the same.

Changing industries and stacks is massively difficult if you're doing it for getting a new job and not just for a hobby as most employers won't value your previous experience if it's not needed, so all that is just useless baggage now rather than an asset.

I tried going from algos/embedded SW development to backend/devops and it took me almost a year of rejections despite my best efforts to self study(in Europe).

Yeah, be careful into which stack/domain you pigeonhole yourself into as, depending on the market you're in, it might not be easy to change course later despite you being a skilled generalist. Not every employer will have the time and resources to verify or value your general skill set and will instead focus on going for sure-hires who better match their specific tech stack.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#23

Post by kaloy »

bluedays wrote: post #14
ryan-duve wrote: post #2

It seems to me the title would have been better named "Why reskilling will probably not guarantee you a new job". The first two thirds of the article about how and why this doesn't happen, and it sums up with what appears to be the exception. That said, I couldn't agree with the closing more: "You've got to work so hard at it and do all these extra activities and just immerse yourself fully. Without that passion, I c…

Agreed. Transitioning into tech for this very reason has yielding amazing results for me.

Same here, its going to be the same overall if you found something that you are passionate and really spend your time immersing yourself in it(and of course talent in that field counts). Find that and you will probably succeed

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#24

Post by aroundtown »

bilbo0s wrote: post #6
HarryHirsch wrote: post #3

They bury the lede: "In reality, employers report difficulty hiring because the wages they offer don’t match the skills they’re after, she says" Also: "In a 2018 paper, he and colleagues showed that only about 60 to 70% of US computing and engineering graduates land jobs in STEM, dropping to between 10 and 50% for those studying life sciences, physical sciences and maths."

In reality, employers report difficulty hiring because the wages they offer don’t match the skills they’re after, she says AND only about 60 to 70% of US computing and engineering graduates land jobs in STEM I don't know man? The implication there is that there exist up to 30-40% of new computing and engineering grads who on the one hand are without jobs in STEM, and on the other are willing to leave the STEM jobs th…

One of those 30-40% checking in.

When I graduated with a CS degree in '07 (US) the first job offer I received was for $25k. I was so angry at that offer. I told the hiring manager that I couldn't possibly work for less than $35k they scoffed at that, I told them no thanks. I could make more money flipping burgers.

I kept looking for work.

Had another offer for $32k with one week of vacation a year, and no health care.

It took me over a year to land my first gig, only making $45k a year. No job since has paid me more.

I had phone interviews that last for less than two minutes because I didn't have industry experience when the posting clearly no experience needed/ will train.

I've had my time wasted by recruiters who send me to interviews that I'm not qualified for.

Interviewed with Amazon at one point, got invited to onsite interview, when my contact ghosted me while trying to arrange travel.

I've worked some programming jobs, all of them have been horrible in their own way. Alcoholics, cliques and fiefdoms, to being left to my own devices working alone often forgotten.

At this point my wife thinks its time for me to go back to school and get another degree, leave programming behind. I love computers. I'm a good programmer. I have no idea what I would do if I wasn't in technology.

What frustrates me the most, is the number of people I know in my personal life, that never got programming degrees that are now well paid programmers. All of them have degrees in non engineering fields, started non programming jobs that turned into programming jobs because they needed something coded up.

The second thing that frustrates me is the sheer number of people that I have interacted with that have pulled the ladder up behind them once they make it out.

It is frustrating knowing I am a good programmer and seeing bad programmers getting well paying jobs.

I guess where I'm trying to go with this, is that for some of us, we just can't seem to get ahead. Maybe we are just unlucky. Maybe we have been beaten down by the interview process or jobs and we don't want to deal with it anymore.

I know for a fact that had I just taken a regular 9-5 non-stem job I'd be ahead of where I am right now. And what scares me is the thought that if I keep trying, I might not ever do better in STEM.... I love STEM...

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#25

Post by rwbhn »

bilbo0s wrote: post #6
HarryHirsch wrote: post #3

They bury the lede: "In reality, employers report difficulty hiring because the wages they offer don’t match the skills they’re after, she says" Also: "In a 2018 paper, he and colleagues showed that only about 60 to 70% of US computing and engineering graduates land jobs in STEM, dropping to between 10 and 50% for those studying life sciences, physical sciences and maths."

In reality, employers report difficulty hiring because the wages they offer don’t match the skills they’re after, she says AND only about 60 to 70% of US computing and engineering graduates land jobs in STEM I don't know man? The implication there is that there exist up to 30-40% of new computing and engineering grads who on the one hand are without jobs in STEM, and on the other are willing to leave the STEM jobs th…

Another possibility is that despite graduating from a computing or engineering program, many of these people still lack the skills STEM employers are looking for.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#26

Post by baron_harkonnen »

dcolkitt wrote: post #8

The biggest thing from the employer side is that the cost of a single bad hire can be potentially enormous. This is a combination of legal (threat of wrongful termination lawsuits, COBRA) and cultural (nobody likes to feel like a jerk boss, morale problems among the remaining employees). The rule of thumb among managers is don't hire anybody unless you're 90% sure they'll work out for at least a year. That creates a…

> The rule of thumb among managers is don't hire anybody unless you're 90% sure they'll work out for at least a year.

This used to be the the way people thought, but the trend I've seen is it's becoming more and more common to just continuously fire people.

In my last two jobs at very different companies it was pretty insane the rate that good employees got fired based on "culture mismatch" related issues. Amazon and Netflix have basically normalized PIP culture at larger places, where the strategy is basically hire like crazy and then find a reason to pip anyone you don't like. The most recent startup I was at was absurdly trigger happy, gleefully firing anyone that wasn't able to read the minds of "leadership" or in anyways challenged the status quo (even if they were supposed hired to do just that).

It used to be my experience that anyone who was let go within a year was obviously a bad hire to anyone at the company. Now I see constant confusion among employees about why some of their favorite coworkers are being let go. Maybe I'm just unlucky in places I've been recently, or very lucky about places I've been before, but it certainly looks like a strange shift in the environment.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#27

Post by gabereiser »

sjg007 wrote: post #21
dcolkitt wrote: post #8

The biggest thing from the employer side is that the cost of a single bad hire can be potentially enormous. This is a combination of legal (threat of wrongful termination lawsuits, COBRA) and cultural (nobody likes to feel like a jerk boss, morale problems among the remaining employees). The rule of thumb among managers is don't hire anybody unless you're 90% sure they'll work out for at least a year. That creates a…

This single bad hire myth needs to die. It's just simply not true. Organizations should have feedback loops in place to monitor and mitigate the issue. And if you don't, then the person doing the hiring should take on that responsibility. This is the cost of doing business and should be factored in. Transactional employment exists in FAANGs and other big tech. They are called contractors.

Can’t up-vote this enough. The myth is just laziness in not wanting to have hard conversations and establish feedback that corrects behavior or fills gaps in skill sets. Invest in your people. That “bad apple” may have some things going on at home that they are unaware of how it’s affecting them.

That “bad apple” could have a grievance no one is willing to listen to.

That “bad apple” could have a better idea that was shutdown during an “open discussion” meeting.

Before you go and point the finger at the new hire, it’s best to fully examine yourself.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#28

Post by neilwilson »

There are 19 bones and 20 dogs.

No matter how many training and reskilling courses they go on 5% of the dogs will remain unemployed.

The fundamental problem is a lack of jobs, because there is no market mechanism by which the private sector will create sufficient jobs to hire everybody who wants work.

It's time to restore the Beveridge condition. Jobs should wait, not people.

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#29

Post by [deleted] »

aroundtown wrote: post #24
bilbo0s wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality, employers report difficulty hiring because the wages they offer don’t match the skills they’re after, she says AND only about 60 to 70% of US computing and engineering graduates land jobs in STEM I don't know man? The implication there is that there exist up to 30-40% of new computing and engineering grads who on the one hand are without jobs in STEM, and on the other are willing to leave the STEM jobs th…

One of those 30-40% checking in. When I graduated with a CS degree in '07 (US) the first job offer I received was for $25k. I was so angry at that offer. I told the hiring manager that I couldn't possibly work for less than $35k they scoffed at that, I told them no thanks. I could make more money flipping burgers. I kept looking for work. Had another offer for $32k with one week of vacation a year, and no health care…

[deleted]

Re: Why reskilling won’t always guarantee you a new job

#30

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

aroundtown wrote: post #24
bilbo0s wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality, employers report difficulty hiring because the wages they offer don’t match the skills they’re after, she says AND only about 60 to 70% of US computing and engineering graduates land jobs in STEM I don't know man? The implication there is that there exist up to 30-40% of new computing and engineering grads who on the one hand are without jobs in STEM, and on the other are willing to leave the STEM jobs th…

One of those 30-40% checking in. When I graduated with a CS degree in '07 (US) the first job offer I received was for $25k. I was so angry at that offer. I told the hiring manager that I couldn't possibly work for less than $35k they scoffed at that, I told them no thanks. I could make more money flipping burgers. I kept looking for work. Had another offer for $32k with one week of vacation a year, and no health care…

>It is frustrating knowing I am a good programmer and seeing bad programmers getting well paying jobs.

Yes, welcome to the real world of employment where your ability to network, sell yourself well, make your boss happy, be likable and play the politics game is what will make you successful rather than your ability to 1337 code.

I know it's bitter, and most don't like to admit this, but tech is by no means a meritocracy even though the PR likes to make it one.

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