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A Worsening Culture War

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Re: A Worsening Culture War

#21

Post by Cthulhu_ »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #4

So both sides identify the problem and have different ways to solve it. Keeping the two sides focused on their own method of solving the problem prevents any meaningful change. This keeps the rich ruling class in place as-is for now. Sounds like they are doing short term self preservation well.

It's short term EVERYTHING it seems to me; no long term plans, just focus on the next election. It's not about improving the country, it's about making your mark during your 2-4 year tenure (in whatever position the politicians may find themselves). And because of the US' broken democratic system that moves towards and maintains a two-party system, it's becoming an us-vs-them fight, with the sides entrenching themselves more and more.

A Dem win or a Republican win (wherever) will not improve things much, it'll just flip flop things around for a little bit and the other side will be pissed off until they win again. It's a downward spiral and I'm not seeing anything being done to break the cycle, it's just damage control and short-term improvements.

Reboot the system, change the democratic system, allow for more varied representation, reduce the power of the president (and for fuck's sake moderate their statements, Trump's twitter diarrhea was an embarrassment to everyone), etc.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#22

Post by SllX »

eznzt wrote: post #15
Roritharr wrote: post #9

The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. My sister and I, living in Germany, have a very loving relationship, but we absolutely disagree on almost everything political and basically are stuck in our seperate bubbles. This gave us an interesting observation: 5 years ago it took us about two to three months, to have a fight over something that start…

>The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. It does not seem so crazy to me, after decades of cultural imperialism from America, that we are mirroring the same patterns of behaviour and fighting the same battles. (Just to be clear, I'm not against imperialism) If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even…

> If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on.

This is good advice for Americans too. The privacy of the ballot box is a cornerstone of America for a good goddamned reason.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#23

Post by dec0dedab0de »

javert wrote: post #7

This is just another blame-the-rich piece without any evidence. I guess blaming the rich is very popular right now. The article is really interesting, so it's too bad he mars it with this kind of unproven, cruel and vitriolic thesis.

I think the theme is more along the lines of blame people with power, do not blame people without power. It just so happens that people who focus on accumulating money, are usually focused on accumulating power.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#24

Post by admiralspoo »

ixtli wrote: post #10

I generally agree with the notion that the parties raise money off this rhetoric. However the implied group in the title, “America’s wealthy” isn’t covered here. The DNC fundraisers benefit a group of people who don’t generally fall into that category. They’re rich, and powerful sure, but they’re not Jeff Bezos. Americans would do well to be able to tell the difference between the oligarchs and their lackeys.

Are you sure about that? Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post. Bloomberg, is well, Bloomberg, who spent $1 billion in an attempt to buy the presidency.

And Eric Schmidt is looking at tax havens, ironically reported in the media arm owned by Bloomberg:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-24/wealthy-u...

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#25

Post by lotsofpulp »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #20
eznzt wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. It does not seem so crazy to me, after decades of cultural imperialism from America, that we are mirroring the same patterns of behaviour and fighting the same battles. (Just to be clear, I'm not against imperialism) If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even…

For what it’s worth, I’m an American & American politics strains my American relationship with my American friends & family. Fuck this red/blue shit.

I don’t understand “red/blue” shit. For me, it’s “improving quality of life for wage earners and affirming civil liberties / vs not doing the aforementioned” shit.

A cousin in my family has a very valid grievance against business owner uncles that support politicians who don’t want to provide meal breaks or bathroom breaks. This cousin has to work 12 to 14 hour shifts, and eat standing up while working and sneak in bathroom breaks.

That’s not “red/blue” shit.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#26

Post by 0xfaded »

eznzt wrote: post #15
Roritharr wrote: post #9

The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. My sister and I, living in Germany, have a very loving relationship, but we absolutely disagree on almost everything political and basically are stuck in our seperate bubbles. This gave us an interesting observation: 5 years ago it took us about two to three months, to have a fight over something that start…

>The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. It does not seem so crazy to me, after decades of cultural imperialism from America, that we are mirroring the same patterns of behaviour and fighting the same battles. (Just to be clear, I'm not against imperialism) If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even…

I would equally blame the stagnant and supine institutions on the other side of the Atlantic that obsess over preserving the status quo while providing no meaningful alternative to American leadership. Whether it's culture, innovation, finance, it's all the same. Europe has become reliant on America and will accept anything in the name of Diplomacy through Trade.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#27

Post by DarkWiiPlayer »

eznzt wrote: post #15
Roritharr wrote: post #9

The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. My sister and I, living in Germany, have a very loving relationship, but we absolutely disagree on almost everything political and basically are stuck in our seperate bubbles. This gave us an interesting observation: 5 years ago it took us about two to three months, to have a fight over something that start…

>The craziest part of this american culture war, to me, is that it seems to spill over to the rest of the world. It does not seem so crazy to me, after decades of cultural imperialism from America, that we are mirroring the same patterns of behaviour and fighting the same battles. (Just to be clear, I'm not against imperialism) If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even…

> If American politics are straining your relationship with your sister and you are not even American, sorry to put it like this but only you two have yourselves to blame. Next time your sister brings the topic up say "yeah right" and move on.

This. America is not actively shoving its politics into our conversations, we're doing that ourselves (I'm from Germany as well, btw.).

Yes, talking about whatever social shenanigans are currently relevant in the USA is fun, but applying those weird ideas to ones own society is a completely different thing.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#28

Post by im3w1l »

harryf wrote: post #12

The real question to me is whether FaceBook and Google are _deliberately_ complicit in creating devisive bubbles through recommendation systems or whether that’s just an unfortunate byproduct that’s unfixable? In Taiwan they have social media designed to reward agreement - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/27/taiwan-civic-h... - whether it’s truly successful or not I can’t say but if so, then Facebook and Go…

It's not that people want to create division. But the left becomes upset with your product if you show them rightwing opinions, so if you want to have rightwing content you have to make bubbles so they don't see it.

This is what I have seen professionally.

Edited a bit.

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#29

Post by zo1 »

rinze wrote: post #5
moomin wrote: post #2

This thing is phrased in a really weird way. First: "The left believe the right are dumb and don't have values" followed by "Evidence the left are correct" then "They're as bad as each other".

I'm trying to find your quoted phrases inside the article and I'm not able to. Can you paste the entire paragraph?

He's paraphrasing. E.g. the first part about the left thinking the right are dumb and without values is covered with this quote from the article:

"From the “vast right-wing conspiracy” through the “basket of deplorables” to now, the Democratic message increasingly focuses on the illegitimacy of the ordinary conservative voter’s opinion: ignorant, conspiratorial, and racist, so terrible that the only hope is mass-reprogramming by educated betters."

Re: A Worsening Culture War

#30

Post by rossdavidh »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #25
PopeDotNinja wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it’s worth, I’m an American & American politics strains my American relationship with my American friends & family. Fuck this red/blue shit.

I don’t understand “red/blue” shit. For me, it’s “improving quality of life for wage earners and affirming civil liberties / vs not doing the aforementioned” shit. A cousin in my family has a very valid grievance against business owner uncles that support politicians who don’t want to provide meal breaks or bathroom breaks. This cousin has to work 12 to 14 hour shifts, and eat standing up while working and sneak in b…

Thank you for demonstrating the phenomenon so well.
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