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You Are the Product (2017)

lrb.co.uk

21–30 of 82 posts

Re: You Are the Product (2017)

#21
"No human enterprise, no new technology or utility or service, has ever been adopted so widely so quickly. "

Smartphones, Android, Google, and well, I don't know about services/product used in China, all of them disagree with this statement.

Re: You Are the Product (2017)

#22
post #21

"No human enterprise, no new technology or utility or service, has ever been adopted so widely so quickly. " Smartphones, Android, Google, and well, I don't know about services/product used in China, all of them disagree with this statement.

and with all of those systems you mentioned, you are the product.

Re: You Are the Product (2017)

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, but I'm OK with paying. I paid for netflix, lastpass and zoom. I still pay for dynalist, audible or for having my own email address. However, I'm not OK with having a logged in google account that accumulates everything I do into their DB and AI while I use their services. Even when you pay, they still milk your private life. And they have proved time after time they cannot be trusted with it.

Netflix also accumulates all of your watching habits and feeds it into AI while using their services.

Is that a bad thing if it helps you to find great new content?

Re: You Are the Product (2017)

#24
I like the update to this from the “Social Dilemma”: ”Your manipulation is the product”.

Ad blockers do not protect you from the algorithms that make you more extreme to your side of social or political topic. People are paying and using social media to manipulate your opinion and that do not come just from ads.

Re: You Are the Product (2017)

#25
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word. People won't pay so ads happen.

Bullshit. I pay to go to the movies, I am advertised to. Why do you think online services will maintain this “pay is for ad fee”?

So specifically, how should sites support themselves if such as you won't pay?

Re: You Are the Product (2017)

#26
I've been contemplating performing an experiment where I use a new device without creating any accounts, then, seeing how useful the Internet is. (Rhetorically...)

Can I use maps to navigate?

Can I browse the Twitter feeds of a few favorite accounts?

Can I consume free video content on YouTube, or any free movies?

Can I make a reservation at a restaurant?

Then, for those activities that I cannot do, is there still a real-world analog method? I used to look up stock prices in the newspaper and buy and sell stocks by phoning by brokerage. Is that still possible?

As the activities of daily life have moved online, our ability to participate in society has attenuated. Has that attenuation yet reached a pathological state? If so, policy needs to provide a way any such activities that cannot be performed without paying with privacy still have a non-Internet method.

Re: You Are the Product (2017)

#27
Social media is a tricky one because it's got such a bus factor wrt. usage, however I'm pleasantly surprised at the abundance of products coming out where you (your data, that is) are _not_ the product.

Analytics - Fathom (https://usefathom.com), Plausible (https://plausible.io)

Project Management - Portabella (https://portabella.io) (disclaimer: I'm behind this one)

Chat - Signal (https://signal.org/en/), Matrix (https://matrix.org/)

I could absolutely go on and on, because I see new privacy focused products popping up in all sorts of industries every day.

The key is that these services are usually paid, which offsets the need for your data becoming the product.

More and more these days I have less trust in free lunches

Re: You Are the Product (2017)

#28
There is a big sentiment in the comments that ads are per se a bad thing. I want to make a counter argument: ads drive innovation because they make expensive services possible for the masses. I have watched endless YouTube videos and learned a great many things. I haven’t paid a dime for it yet. Newspaper adoption in mass was achieved by the same mechanism. Ads drove the price for newspaper significantly down so the general could afford buying them. Ads are not evil. People are.

Re: You Are the Product (2017)

#29
post #28

There is a big sentiment in the comments that ads are per se a bad thing. I want to make a counter argument: ads drive innovation because they make expensive services possible for the masses. I have watched endless YouTube videos and learned a great many things. I haven’t paid a dime for it yet. Newspaper adoption in mass was achieved by the same mechanism. Ads drove the price for newspaper significantly down so the…

Sure, ads are good and not a problem. But you need to differentiate them from the personal data mining industry, which not only gathers the data for targeted advertising, but also to sell it to hedge funds and whoever is willing to pay enough for it.

You don't need personal data in order to provide targeted advertising. The proper context of where the ad will be embedded is mostly enough for good targeting.

Re: You Are the Product (2017)

#30
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay for YouTube premium and get rid of ads. If you spend a non trivial amount of time on YouTube it's well worth it, especially the family account. Don't want to be the product ? Pay for your services then - the money has to come from somewhere.

So the content producers just advertise to you directly, why wouldn’t they? The bigger they get, the more premium viewers, the more sponsors they receive. Eventually YouTube won’t like being cut out gain and boom to YouTube premium now has ads.

This doesn't make sense. If you're paying for YouTube, then Google is already making a steady income stream from you; no need for ads.
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