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The Last Children of Down Syndrome

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Last Children of Down Syndrome

#21

Post by duxup »

chmod775 wrote: post #8

Prenatal testing is one of the few solutions to this "post-darwinian" world (not in the usual sense of the word) with its modern medicine that will result in mankind accumulating more and more genetic defects. Though slightly more ethical from my point of view would be gene-editing to remove those defects, instead of just terminating the fetus. Edit: Also I'm not talking about down syndrome specifically. There's a lo…

It's hard to imagine any kinda of gene editing doesn't inevitably lead to Gattaca type situation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP1cCjBkWZU

The doctor's "best of you" argument ... it's hard for that not to be appealing.

Re: The Last Children of Down Syndrome

#22

Post by bdamm »

michaelsbradley wrote: post #2

Special attention must be given to evaluating the morality of prenatal diagnostic techniques which enable the early detection of possible anomalies in the unborn child. In view of the complexity of these techniques, an accurate and systematic moral judgment is necessary. When they do not involve disproportionate risks for the child and the mother, and are meant to make possible early therapy or even to favour a seren…

Yet this attitude rarely comes with systemic care for those born with handicaps, so actually it is a form of classist cruelty.

There is no shortage of suffering, we don't need to choose to create more.

Re: The Last Children of Down Syndrome

#23

Post by tokai »

chmod775 wrote: post #8

Prenatal testing is one of the few solutions to this "post-darwinian" world (not in the usual sense of the word) with its modern medicine that will result in mankind accumulating more and more genetic defects. Though slightly more ethical from my point of view would be gene-editing to remove those defects, instead of just terminating the fetus. Edit: Also I'm not talking about down syndrome specifically. There's a lo…

>will result in mankind accumulating more and more genetic defects.

Is there any evidence that this is actually the case?

Re: The Last Children of Down Syndrome

#24

Post by foenix »

chmod775 wrote: post #8

Prenatal testing is one of the few solutions to this "post-darwinian" world (not in the usual sense of the word) with its modern medicine that will result in mankind accumulating more and more genetic defects. Though slightly more ethical from my point of view would be gene-editing to remove those defects, instead of just terminating the fetus. Edit: Also I'm not talking about down syndrome specifically. There's a lo…

"modern medicine that will result in mankind accumulating more and more genetic defects."

Citation needed...

A lot of autosomal recessive genetic disease is a result of humans reproducing within their in-group, making the likelihood of two carriers of the same variant having offspring with that expressed variant. BRCA1 / BRCA2 in the Ashkenazi Jewish population are a common example. Nothing about medical genetic testing will directly cause more genetic defects.

Re: The Last Children of Down Syndrome

#25

Post by gadders »

I think there is a certain tension between on the one hand being against children being aborted for downs syndrome, but being OK with children with no detected abnormalities being aborted for lifestyle/career reasons.

Re: The Last Children of Down Syndrome

#26

Post by lazyasciiart »

chmod775 wrote: post #13
nivenkos wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will result in mankind accumulating more and more genetic defects Why? Unless the Down Syndrome patients themselves have children, then there wouldn't be an evolutionary impact.

Are you planning to make laws that will make it illegal for people with genetic defects to procreate? Seriously?

That seems like a big jump from what they actually said.

Re: The Last Children of Down Syndrome

#27

Post by andrepd »

michaelsbradley wrote: post #2

Special attention must be given to evaluating the morality of prenatal diagnostic techniques which enable the early detection of possible anomalies in the unborn child. In view of the complexity of these techniques, an accurate and systematic moral judgment is necessary. When they do not involve disproportionate risks for the child and the mother, and are meant to make possible early therapy or even to favour a seren…

It's a valid perspective, so I think the downvotes aren't in order. However I strongly disagree. Having Down syndrome isn't just being "outside the conventional parameters of of normality", it's a serious disease with life-altering implications. You will never surpass the cognitive capacity of a young child, you will have impaired vision and hearing, if you ever manage to speak at all, you will probably lose that ability at around 30 years of age. You will have a myriad other chronic and painful health problems, and then you will finally die at around age 40 (maybe more with enough high-quality support). This is not a life worth living, if I ever were in such a situation I would pray to be euthanised.

Re: The Last Children of Down Syndrome

#28

Post by __s »

nivenkos wrote: post #10
chmod775 wrote: post #8

Prenatal testing is one of the few solutions to this "post-darwinian" world (not in the usual sense of the word) with its modern medicine that will result in mankind accumulating more and more genetic defects. Though slightly more ethical from my point of view would be gene-editing to remove those defects, instead of just terminating the fetus. Edit: Also I'm not talking about down syndrome specifically. There's a lo…

> will result in mankind accumulating more and more genetic defects Why? Unless the Down Syndrome patients themselves have children, then there wouldn't be an evolutionary impact.

Genetic disorders don't always express themselves, but can run in the family

Re: The Last Children of Down Syndrome

#29

Post by gowld »

alangibson wrote: post #7
michaelsbradley wrote: post #2

Special attention must be given to evaluating the morality of prenatal diagnostic techniques which enable the early detection of possible anomalies in the unborn child. In view of the complexity of these techniques, an accurate and systematic moral judgment is necessary. When they do not involve disproportionate risks for the child and the mother, and are meant to make possible early therapy or even to favour a seren…

I hope I'm not following the argument, because it sounds like he thinks we should have other people around 'suffering with serious disabilities' so we can be reminded how precious life is. If so, that's cruel to the point of perversity.

He thinks that we should treasure all life as precious, not only the healthiest and strongest.

Re: The Last Children of Down Syndrome

#30

Post by andrepd »

gowld wrote: post #19
tristor wrote: post #14

> Yet a gulf seems to separate the publicly expressed attitudes and private decisions. I would be more surprised if this were not true. It's not very PC to say, but quite simply being different is not inherently a moral good. Downs Syndrome in particular is more controversial, because people who have this disorder typically are happy in their lives. I've spent a not insignificant part of my life working with teenager…

> meaningful quality of life factors. What are these?

Everything, from cognitive ability, to chronic health problems in vision, hearing, heart, diabetes, etc. And of course, the immense weight on caretakers.
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