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Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

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Re: Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

#21

Post by ponker »

eptcyka wrote: post #19
ponker wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in a 3 generational family sharing anything but a small apartment and it's absolutely wonderful. Us, the nuclear family, occupies the 3000 sqft house. My in-laws live in the guest house which is about 800 sqft. My parents live about a mile away. We see a lot of each other but everyone has their space.

What's the annual household income in that situation?

$400k, parents generation is retired with plenty of money. My point is more broadly that in a family where everyone can comfortably afford to live alone, living together can be massively more fun.

Re: Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

#22

Post by xenocratus »

ponker wrote: post #21
eptcyka wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the annual household income in that situation?

$400k, parents generation is retired with plenty of money. My point is more broadly that in a family where everyone can comfortably afford to live alone, living together can be massively more fun.

I think the percentage of families that earn enough for that kind of mansion is below 1%

Re: Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

#23

Post by GuB-42 »

ponker wrote: post #16
kimjongtrill wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is 100% different from parent comment’s situation though...

Right, but my point is that “Living with parents” is a wildly different experience if you have enough space. Not a rebuttal, a different anecdote.

Totally, I spent some time with my parents, grandparents and uncle in a very large house (800 m2). We didn't even feel like we were living together, it was more comparable to living in the same apartment complex. We even had internal phone lines.

It was actually shocking to me because I usually lived with my parents in a small apartment and we were always aware of each other presence. It that big house, we actually had to do something to see each other, we could stay all day in our rooms as if we were alone if we wanted to.

Re: Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

#24

Post by ponker »

xenocratus wrote: post #22
ponker wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$400k, parents generation is retired with plenty of money. My point is more broadly that in a family where everyone can comfortably afford to live alone, living together can be massively more fun.

I think the percentage of families that earn enough for that kind of mansion is below 1%

More like 5%. But the fact remains that "living alone" is considered aspirational in society, and that's not axiomatic. Plenty of American adults can afford to live alone, and do, but by pooling their resources with their parents, both can live on one property and have a much richer life together than living apart. My in-laws who live on the property sold their house to help us buy the property -- we couldn't have done it by ourselves, so we really had to break down some assumptions/default behaviors about financial independence which are fairly standard in the US.

Re: Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

#25

Post by pjc50 »

ponker wrote: post #10
john_moscow wrote: post #6

Keeping connection with the older generations and learning from them is important. But I don't think, nuclear families are about denying that. It's more about having enough space and freedom to see each other when you want it, but keeping off each other's backs and not letting the differences between the generations ruin your relations. I've grown up in a typical 3-generational Russian family sharing a rather small a…

We live in a 3 generational family sharing anything but a small apartment and it's absolutely wonderful. Us, the nuclear family, occupies the 3000 sqft house. My in-laws live in the guest house which is about 800 sqft. My parents live about a mile away. We see a lot of each other but everyone has their space.

If you're the 1%, anything is great.

(That area of living space is almost unimaginable in the UK, I'd have to buy a disused hotel or small castle to get that)

Re: Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

#26

Post by tony0x02 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #7

I have become the self-appointed steward of the family photo archive after my aunt pulled a suitcase stuffed with photos out from under the bed in the spare room in her trailer. The suitcase's original owner, another aunt, "Aunt" Faye, had lived to be 103 years old but had never had children. And so I got to work scanning I believe over 500 photos — the earliest a tin-type from 1890 or so. Many were then cleaned up i…

I've been thinking about doing the same thing. Do you have any advice before I start?

Re: Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

#27

Post by Dirlewanger »

john_moscow wrote: post #6

Keeping connection with the older generations and learning from them is important. But I don't think, nuclear families are about denying that. It's more about having enough space and freedom to see each other when you want it, but keeping off each other's backs and not letting the differences between the generations ruin your relations. I've grown up in a typical 3-generational Russian family sharing a rather small a…

Don't romanticize what, living near your immediate family? Why? It's how literally every civilization has done things so far. This modern American ideal of forced to be on your own at 18 to find yourself has only been around for 70 years at most, and while we've achieved unthinkable progress in that time as a society, it's wrecked havoc over the family unit.

Re: Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

#28

Post by golergka »

john_moscow wrote: post #6

Keeping connection with the older generations and learning from them is important. But I don't think, nuclear families are about denying that. It's more about having enough space and freedom to see each other when you want it, but keeping off each other's backs and not letting the differences between the generations ruin your relations. I've grown up in a typical 3-generational Russian family sharing a rather small a…

> I've grown up in a typical 3-generational Russian family sharing a rather small apartment, and I can tell you, it gets on your nerves when the grandparents want to watch TV at maximum volume, while the parent is trying to catch some sleep debt and the kid (me) is doing homework in the same room. That was one of the main reasons why I decided to move to the West where having enough private space was considered to be a basic and unquestionable necessity.

I've had exactly the same experience, and I only now slowly come to realise the amount of emotional abuse that is normalised in such families. Shouting and fighting (physically, with bruises and injuries) on a daily basis, belittling one another, constantly being passive aggressive in any communication, never-ending hostility towards your closest family members — it's just something that is completely normal and expected in many, many families that live like this. Even without alcohol involved.

Re: Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

#29

Post by PartiallyTyped »

I come from South Eastern Europe and lived quite a bit with my grandparents, my parents are split though. The experience wasn't really good. Older people tend to have a very fixed and opinionated idea of what is good or 'correct' that does not match the reality. I heard for the best part of my adolescence and childhood that 'sitting in-front of a computer will not put food on your plate'. Guess who studied CompSci?

So, while this could work for the average household, it isn't a gospel and needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

Re: Not Just Nuclear: Families are elders long buried and generations yet unborn

#30

Post by mlang23 »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #27
john_moscow wrote: post #6

Keeping connection with the older generations and learning from them is important. But I don't think, nuclear families are about denying that. It's more about having enough space and freedom to see each other when you want it, but keeping off each other's backs and not letting the differences between the generations ruin your relations. I've grown up in a typical 3-generational Russian family sharing a rather small a…

Don't romanticize what, living near your immediate family? Why? It's how literally every civilization has done things so far. This modern American ideal of forced to be on your own at 18 to find yourself has only been around for 70 years at most, and while we've achieved unthinkable progress in that time as a society, it's wrecked havoc over the family unit.

I am not sure that is as universally true as you believe. In the old ages, an apprentice actually had to move to a different area to be given the master title. I have no english references for you right now, and I am probably lacking the proper translations as well, but here is a German wikipedia article about the phenomenon which you can probably use to follow the breadcrums:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanderjahre

Also, I am not American, and moving out and implicitly stopping the overcontrolling manners of my mother was one of the best things I have done in my whole life. IOW, it really depends on your parents and family if you can stay and still develop into an independant adult.

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