The biology of dads • Hacker News Board

Re: The biology of dads

#21

Post by DoingIsLearning » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 5:06 PM UTC

jacobush wrote: post #13

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #8

> The bodies and brains of fathers, not just mothers, are transformed through the love and labour of raising a child There is a clear link in emotional bonding and hormonal changes of mothers associated with pregnancy and labour. At face value it sounds nice that fathers also experience hormonal changes due to bonding with their children. However, I couldn't find any reference to the confounding of fathers just exper…

And for mothers?

There is a well estabilished hormonal link betwen pregnancy/labour and mother child bonding. [0] My point is that they seem to make the leap that a male equivalent _must_ exist for father bonding.

What I question is if this hormonal change (T drop) in males is not just due to sleep deprivation, rather than some unknown/unclear male bonding mechanism.

[0] https://www.nct.org.uk/labour-birth/your-guide-labour/hormon...

Re: The biology of dads

#22

Post by softwaredoug » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

cosmic_shame wrote: post #15

My personal experience as a dad of a 16 month old: new, intense anxiety about what the future will look like for my child.

this only gets worse when they get older.

A dangerous thing that can happen is when you over-identify with your kids. Like being the overbearing sports-parent that pushes their kid to succeed because you see it as an extension of your success. I think every parent runs into this to some degree. I have to remind myself they are different people with their own wants, needs, values, and criteria for what "success" means to them. Not an extension of myself.

Yet it's hard to balance avoiding over-identifying with the "I want to keep you out of obvious danger". Like "Don't go 200K in debt for a poor college education" or things like drug and alcohol usage at too young an age. The downside risks for some of these things are huge.

Re: The biology of dads

#23

Post by ryanar » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

bluedays wrote: post #20

>Paradoxically, we found that fathers who activate the anterior cingulate the most when listening to infant crying report the most negative emotional responses to those cries, in particular being more likely to label the cry as spoiled or manipulative. How can greater engagement of a brain region associated with empathy be linked with such negative subjective reactions to the cry? We suspect it relates to a phenomeno…

I read that too and was similarly interested. When babysitting our niece who is <1 year old over night, I was able to handle the incessant crying really well and try to figure out how to alleviate it, or just ride it out while holding her. My wife had to remove herself because it was causing her a ton of distress from hearing the crying. I wonder if she was experiencing this empathic overarousal.

Re: The biology of dads

#24

Post by andi999 » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #10

Sleep deprivation has long been known to cause memory loss. My kids, in the early '00s, would only sleep in the daytime. I lost most of my '90s.

thankfully everybody lost most of the '90s

Re: The biology of dads

#25

Post by kkwteh » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

cosmic_shame wrote: post #15

My personal experience as a dad of a 16 month old: new, intense anxiety about what the future will look like for my child.

Me too. Should I push them to win the shitty meritocracy tournament like I did? Or should I encourage them to follow their dreams and perhaps be more fulfilled? I'm leaning toward the latter.

Re: The biology of dads

#26

Post by jnwatson » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

auslegung wrote: post #5

superflit wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe remembering the fathers that after his kid is born there is a "hell" time of mostly 3-4 months where the baby will be adapting to you and vice-versa. Then the baby sleeps gets longer and you can have 6-8h of sleep. New fathers: Hold tight, after 3-4 months it gets way easier.

In my experience it's a lot longer than 3-4 months. Or perhaps it's hell for 3-4 months, then just purgatory for another couple of years. I have a 4-yo and 2.5-yo and my sleep has still not recovered. Just last night one of them woke up screaming, and this continues to happen about weekly. Being woken up in the middle of the night is one thing, being woken up in the middle of the night to the banshee screams of a you…

It varies widely. My kid has slept through the night since about 4 weeks old. The more kids you have, the more likely you are to get a fussy one.

Re: The biology of dads

#27

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

auslegung wrote: post #5

superflit wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe remembering the fathers that after his kid is born there is a "hell" time of mostly 3-4 months where the baby will be adapting to you and vice-versa. Then the baby sleeps gets longer and you can have 6-8h of sleep. New fathers: Hold tight, after 3-4 months it gets way easier.

In my experience it's a lot longer than 3-4 months. Or perhaps it's hell for 3-4 months, then just purgatory for another couple of years. I have a 4-yo and 2.5-yo and my sleep has still not recovered. Just last night one of them woke up screaming, and this continues to happen about weekly. Being woken up in the middle of the night is one thing, being woken up in the middle of the night to the banshee screams of a you…

My mother, at 76 years old, to me at 56 years old and (former) stay-at-home parent: "oh, the first 40 years are the hardest".

Re: The biology of dads

#28

Post by zo1 » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

zero_deg_kevin wrote: post #2

Any ideas on how to get them to stick around after their kids are born? Asking for a friend.

For the most part: Choose a male mate that has qualities which signal or are correlated with their likelihood to stick around afterwards and be a good parent. That would increase the likelihood of them staying (barring unexpected external factors to the dynamic). You can't just "magically" make people want something they don't want to, nor can you force them (you can see that with things like child-support payments).

Re: The biology of dads

#29

Post by djaychela » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #18

I was shocked how much more _patient_ I became - with everybody - after raising kids. It makes perfect sense, though: I had no choice but to learn relentless patience.

Ironically I spent over a decade in teaching (and about 5 years in a school with lots of pupils with SEND requirements), and then when I met my girlfriend and her 4 kids (who I've now been step-parent of for 10+ years), I was told how patient I was - teaching taught me it first, which was handy as I wasn't patient before... but it's definitely needed with kids.

Re: The biology of dads

#30

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 5:18 PM UTC

kkwteh wrote: post #25

cosmic_shame wrote: post #15

My personal experience as a dad of a 16 month old: new, intense anxiety about what the future will look like for my child.

Me too. Should I push them to win the shitty meritocracy tournament like I did? Or should I encourage them to follow their dreams and perhaps be more fulfilled? I'm leaning toward the latter.

I don’t know what fulfilled means, but my priority is to equip them with the abilities needed to shelter, feed, and otherwise obtain necessities for themselves.

Which, for many people, ends up being participating in the “meritocracy tournament” to secure cash flow. But I let them know what the rules and parameters of the game are, and possible consequences of various actions. After that, it’s up to them to figure out their goals.