Linode launches native IPv6 support • Hacker News Board

Re: Linode launches native IPv6 support

#21

Post by Macha » Tue, May 03, 2011, 10:40 PM UTC

swajr wrote: post #18

jmillikin wrote: post #7

> Can I get more than one IPv6 address? > > A single IPv6 address can be assigned to your Linode for free. I hope this is a misunderstanding -- if not, it's actually a huge step backwards. The current solution for IPv6 in linode (HE tunnel to static IPv4 address) gives each node a full /64. It could be argued that this is a bit excessive, but it seems fairly typical, and lets you do useful things like serve multiple…

The owner of Linode (caker) has clarified on IRC stating that the /128 will be provided to each node, however they will also provide a /64 per datacenter, per account upon request for a nominal fee. The /64 will be routed to your /128 so that you can control how the addresses in your /64 are handed out. The fee has not been disclosed, yet.

So in short it isn't a misunderstanding and they want to charge you per item for something that, for all intents and purposes, is like a single drop of water in an ocean.

Re: Linode launches native IPv6 support

#22

Post by magamiako » Tue, May 03, 2011, 10:42 PM UTC

marshray wrote: post #19

joeyh wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's not just academic, consider if you want to run lots of https and support browsers that don't support https on one address. Not to mention all the applications for many addresses that should develop if/when ipv6 is widespread. As a further datapoint, I have two systems with native ipv6, and each have a /64.

consider if you want to run lots of https and support browsers that don't support https on one address Then Linode expects you to pay more money for the privilege of doing that. They got paid per-https-site over IPv4, they want their cut on IPv6 too.

^ This.

I generally see most providers going this way.

Re: Linode launches native IPv6 support

#23

Post by tptacek » Tue, May 03, 2011, 11:04 PM UTC

Macha wrote: post #21

swajr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The owner of Linode (caker) has clarified on IRC stating that the /128 will be provided to each node, however they will also provide a /64 per datacenter, per account upon request for a nominal fee. The /64 will be routed to your /128 so that you can control how the addresses in your /64 are handed out. The fee has not been disclosed, yet.

So in short it isn't a misunderstanding and they want to charge you per item for something that, for all intents and purposes, is like a single drop of water in an ocean.

They want to charge you for the drop, the space in their RIB to store the drop, the maintenance effort required to keep the RIB entry configured correctly, and the ongoing support costs of people who do things with their Linode boxes that require more than one IPv6 address.

Re: Linode launches native IPv6 support

#24

Post by lsc » Tue, May 03, 2011, 11:08 PM UTC

Macha wrote: post #21

swajr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The owner of Linode (caker) has clarified on IRC stating that the /128 will be provided to each node, however they will also provide a /64 per datacenter, per account upon request for a nominal fee. The /64 will be routed to your /128 so that you can control how the addresses in your /64 are handed out. The fee has not been disclosed, yet.

So in short it isn't a misunderstanding and they want to charge you per item for something that, for all intents and purposes, is like a single drop of water in an ocean.

Be aware that IPv4 is also still /extremely cheap/ - way less than $1/ip/year if you have any volume at all.

When people charge you for IP addresses, the money is for the effort required to deal with justifying them to your rir, setting them up, routing, and maybe to cover abuse (my experience has been that the amount of abuse work i have to put in to a customer correlates somewhat to the number of IP addresses they have) And yeah, probably a good chunk of profit.

The price of an IP, right now, has almost nothing to do with it's scarcity.

Re: Linode launches native IPv6 support

#25

Post by evilduck » Tue, May 03, 2011, 11:11 PM UTC

jmillikin wrote: post #7

> Can I get more than one IPv6 address? > > A single IPv6 address can be assigned to your Linode for free. I hope this is a misunderstanding -- if not, it's actually a huge step backwards. The current solution for IPv6 in linode (HE tunnel to static IPv4 address) gives each node a full /64. It could be argued that this is a bit excessive, but it seems fairly typical, and lets you do useful things like serve multiple…

Can someone dumb down this explanation for me? Why this is a step backwards? I realize there is an absurd amount of IPv6 address space, but my Linode account only gets one IPv4 address for free, why is this different?

Re: Linode launches native IPv6 support

#26

Post by syncsynchalt » Tue, May 03, 2011, 11:28 PM UTC

evilduck wrote: post #25

jmillikin wrote: post #7

> Can I get more than one IPv6 address? > > A single IPv6 address can be assigned to your Linode for free. I hope this is a misunderstanding -- if not, it's actually a huge step backwards. The current solution for IPv6 in linode (HE tunnel to static IPv4 address) gives each node a full /64. It could be argued that this is a bit excessive, but it seems fairly typical, and lets you do useful things like serve multiple…

Can someone dumb down this explanation for me? Why this is a step backwards? I realize there is an absurd amount of IPv6 address space, but my Linode account only gets one IPv4 address for free, why is this different?

It's actually more work to give you one address (a /128) than to assign you a /64.

Everything in ipv6 assumes a /64 is the basic unit of allocation. For example, the stateless autoconfiguration system that replaces much of DHCP assumes it has a /64 to work with.

Linode probably has 4 billion /64s to play with (with options on trillions more if they should need it), why not give out one per customer?

Re: Linode launches native IPv6 support

#27

Post by syncsynchalt » Tue, May 03, 2011, 11:32 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #23

Macha wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in short it isn't a misunderstanding and they want to charge you per item for something that, for all intents and purposes, is like a single drop of water in an ocean.

They want to charge you for the drop, the space in their RIB to store the drop, the maintenance effort required to keep the RIB entry configured correctly, and the ongoing support costs of people who do things with their Linode boxes that require more than one IPv6 address.

The cost of maintaining a /64 is the same as maintaining a /128, and might even be less.

/64 is the basic unit of allocation in IPv6 and all of the tools and allocation protocols assume it.

Re: Linode launches native IPv6 support

#28

Post by antihero » Wed, May 04, 2011, 12:03 AM UTC

jmillikin wrote: post #7

> Can I get more than one IPv6 address? > > A single IPv6 address can be assigned to your Linode for free. I hope this is a misunderstanding -- if not, it's actually a huge step backwards. The current solution for IPv6 in linode (HE tunnel to static IPv4 address) gives each node a full /64. It could be argued that this is a bit excessive, but it seems fairly typical, and lets you do useful things like serve multiple…

Is there a guide somewhere to get HE working with Linode?

Re: Linode launches native IPv6 support

#29

Post by tptacek » Wed, May 04, 2011, 12:21 AM UTC

syncsynchalt wrote: post #27

tptacek wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want to charge you for the drop, the space in their RIB to store the drop, the maintenance effort required to keep the RIB entry configured correctly, and the ongoing support costs of people who do things with their Linode boxes that require more than one IPv6 address.

The cost of maintaining a /64 is the same as maintaining a /128, and might even be less. /64 is the basic unit of allocation in IPv6 and all of the tools and allocation protocols assume it.

The cost isn't the same if /128s select for high-maintenance customers.

Re: Linode launches native IPv6 support

#30

Post by oasisbob » Wed, May 04, 2011, 12:32 AM UTC

jmillikin wrote: post #7

> Can I get more than one IPv6 address? > > A single IPv6 address can be assigned to your Linode for free. I hope this is a misunderstanding -- if not, it's actually a huge step backwards. The current solution for IPv6 in linode (HE tunnel to static IPv4 address) gives each node a full /64. It could be argued that this is a bit excessive, but it seems fairly typical, and lets you do useful things like serve multiple…

I think we should give Linode the benefit of the doubt on this for now.

Depending on how their instances are isolated from each other, it may be difficult to handle prefix delegation all the way down through the individual hosts into the guests.

Even Google had some hacks when they first started bringing up IPv6 support. For example, GMail would display class E addresses instead of the v6 addresses when you viewed last account activity. It was a temporary hack to shoe-horn v6 addresses into their management system.