A Pretty Good Mathematical Model of Perfectionism

Post by whollacsek » Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 11:08 AM UTC

eyelidlessness wrote: post #9

porknubbins wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I came up with the idea of attaching symbolic importance to otherwise menial tasks so I can complete them. Things like mail, paperwork, printing materials I make up some kind of scenario where completing the task is of critical importance and reward myself somehow after. I don’t otherwise recognize myself as ADHD though. I think rather its odd people can easily interrupt their day to do this stuff.

I didn’t recognize myself as ADHD either. I was diagnosed at 37. If I hadn’t taken a (seemingly separate) mental health dive I probably would never have known. It turns out almost all of my anxiety and quite a bit of my depression are easily traced to dopamine deficiency and (sometimes unhealthy) coping strategies. The way I explain the laundry thing to people who don’t experience it is... almost exactly your wording…

Post by willemlabu » Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 1:09 PM UTC

rwnspace wrote: post #10

Someone suggested making minor mistakes on purpose to me a while ago, and it turned out to be a pretty interesting kind of pain to lean into~ There's a typo near the end of the post, which made me smile - my first thought was that it was left in intentionally. I recommend following the author's lead. Like any treatment, it's no panacea, but by god was it liberating, and I'm not entirely disabled by perfectionism thes…

Post by mettamage » Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

tgv wrote: post #16

eyelidlessness wrote: post #5

For folks finding this model/analysis compelling: many of these observations and coping skills are common in undiagnosed ADHD. It’s not a perfect circle venn diagram, but pretty close. Any kind of paralysis without progressive validation or structured achievement is very likely associated with dopamine release and absorption. In adult-diagnosed ADHD cases, we often find ourselves discovering cleverly invented milesto…

Just a nitpick: don't say dopamine production when you mean reward. Dopamine may be involved in some feelings of reward, but it's certainly not the only factor, and it also doesn't simply signal "pleasure" or "achievement" to the rest of your brain. IIRC, it's not at all certain that a sense of achievement can be compared to the typical scenarios in which dopamine is mentioned: eating, drugs.

Post by jtsiskin » Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 6:26 PM UTC

tgv wrote: post #16

eyelidlessness wrote: post #5

For folks finding this model/analysis compelling: many of these observations and coping skills are common in undiagnosed ADHD. It’s not a perfect circle venn diagram, but pretty close. Any kind of paralysis without progressive validation or structured achievement is very likely associated with dopamine release and absorption. In adult-diagnosed ADHD cases, we often find ourselves discovering cleverly invented milesto…

Just a nitpick: don't say dopamine production when you mean reward. Dopamine may be involved in some feelings of reward, but it's certainly not the only factor, and it also doesn't simply signal "pleasure" or "achievement" to the rest of your brain. IIRC, it's not at all certain that a sense of achievement can be compared to the typical scenarios in which dopamine is mentioned: eating, drugs.

Post by eyelidlessness » Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

jtsiskin wrote: post #28

tgv wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a nitpick: don't say dopamine production when you mean reward. Dopamine may be involved in some feelings of reward, but it's certainly not the only factor, and it also doesn't simply signal "pleasure" or "achievement" to the rest of your brain. IIRC, it's not at all certain that a sense of achievement can be compared to the typical scenarios in which dopamine is mentioned: eating, drugs.

When people say “dopamine”, I don’t usually interpret as them literally meaning dopamine. I think at this point in common speech it serves as a shortcut for saying “chemically based rewards“.