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A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

themarshallproject.org

21–30 of 136 posts

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#21
post #2

This is a bleak reminder that prisons are a crime against humanity, no deserves to live in constant fear for their own survival. Not only that but prisoners are a very vulnerable population often exploited for labor, medical experiments and general abuse.

Doesn't this depend a great deal on which prison? I imagine a Dutch prison is very different, for example, but this isn't something I know much about.

Yes, It's highly variable in the US. Most prisons are run by a US state, and conditions vary wildly even within the same state.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#22
post #13
post #2

This is a bleak reminder that prisons are a crime against humanity, no deserves to live in constant fear for their own survival. Not only that but prisoners are a very vulnerable population often exploited for labor, medical experiments and general abuse.

And the fact that smoking remains legal indoors in prisons. I get that there would be extra stress from withdrawal for new inmates, but it might let them quit a nasty, expensive habit while they're in. Plus, it's bad for the health of everyone in there, whether they're smoking or not, including the guards; they have no choice in being able to get away from smokers like you would do on the outside.

There's plenty (most, even?) of US prisons that don't allow any kind of tobacco. It's hard to make generalized statements as they are all different.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#23
post #11

One horror is the length of sentence - 10 years for a non violent burglary.

It's not quite as simple as that. He appears to be serving his third sentence. I went looking for more of his writing and found this: https://www.publicpolicerecord.com/florida/doc-prisoner/MOSE...

It looks like he's on his third go-around, and was probably jailed immediately on a parole or probation violation on his third offense (which explains how he's been away for 6 years despite his current sentence being 5 years). I don't know if he's also going to have to serve more time due to probably having violated his parole for earlier offences.

I hope he gets his life together, for his sake and the sake of his family. It's a shame that he couldn't have been diverted into a first-offender program and rehab many years ago back at his first offense, rather than doing what looks like a 'revolving door' run through prisons.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#24
post #12
post #2

This is a bleak reminder that prisons are a crime against humanity, no deserves to live in constant fear for their own survival. Not only that but prisoners are a very vulnerable population often exploited for labor, medical experiments and general abuse.

I agree there's a lot to be done to reduce the number of prisoners. But at the end of the day, what do you do about members of society who greatly harm others? (murder, rape, etc)? I can't think of any effective solutions which aren't prison, death penalty, or prison-disguised-as-something-else (like a hospital). Maybe exile? What's your philosophy in those cases?

Well consider this: the legal system considers time served in prison as forgiveness, meaning that said murderers, rapists etc can go back to the streets once their sentences are over, regardless of whether they feel remorse or whether they are inclined to repeat their offenses. There's also stigma among employers etc against hiring ex-cons, which can help perpetuate vicious cycles.

There are places in europe, for example, where they focus on developing skills so that someone trying to integrate back into society has a more legitimate shot at being successful. Others have implemented non-policing systems such as drug addiction rehab programs, effectively diverting funds from a policy of handling certain types of issues as policing/legal issues and instead treat them as public health issues.

I also recall reading about a small town in US that was composed almost entirely of ex-cons, where they could start a normal-ish life in preparation to jumping back into the regular society, stigmas and all.

The topic of punishment of "lost causes" is itself sometimes a hot button. Some societies consider death penalty acceptable while others do not, for example. There's even differences in laws regarding things like involuntary manslaughter in driving accidents, for example (notoriously, the case of core.js maintainer going to prison for it). We could probably be here all day debating what is "beyond redemption" or not, and not come to an agreement, and we can see from the ratio of small crime inmates that we tend to err on the side of far too much caution / vengeful spirit.

You cannot treat miscreant behavior as if it was a movie, where you beat the bad guy and get a happy ending. Real people are complex beasts and life goes on after the credits roll.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#25
post #13
post #2

This is a bleak reminder that prisons are a crime against humanity, no deserves to live in constant fear for their own survival. Not only that but prisoners are a very vulnerable population often exploited for labor, medical experiments and general abuse.

And the fact that smoking remains legal indoors in prisons. I get that there would be extra stress from withdrawal for new inmates, but it might let them quit a nasty, expensive habit while they're in. Plus, it's bad for the health of everyone in there, whether they're smoking or not, including the guards; they have no choice in being able to get away from smokers like you would do on the outside.

>And the fact that smoking remains legal indoors in prisons.

This is like saying "OMG, isn't illegal in the US". Prisons are run by the states. Jails are usually run by the counties. Banning tobacco across the board for prisoners and staff is common because it becomes one less potential avenue of illicit trade between the guards and prisoners. Just because there isn't a law against doesn't mean it's not usually prohibited in practice.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#26
post #2

This is a bleak reminder that prisons are a crime against humanity, no deserves to live in constant fear for their own survival. Not only that but prisoners are a very vulnerable population often exploited for labor, medical experiments and general abuse.

Doesn't this depend a great deal on which prison? I imagine a Dutch prison is very different, for example, but this isn't something I know much about.

Even American prisons tend to have offenders split into violent and non-violent institutions based on offence. In here it is burglary, so I guess they counted it as violent.

But, that UK hacker that got arrested after black hat was in non-violent section.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#27
post #11

One horror is the length of sentence - 10 years for a non violent burglary.

>10 years for a non violent burglary.

There are two common ways to get a crazy prison sentence.

Drug and/or gun possession often acts as a multiplier on sentencing guidelines for whatever the underlying crime is.

Multiple contacts with the system (three strikes laws and parole/probation violations) tend to have compounding sentences so screwing up on parole or probation can net you an additional sentence than in addition to time served adds up to longer than whatever the longest sentence you would get as a standalone is.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#28
post #19
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the fact that smoking remains legal indoors in prisons. I get that there would be extra stress from withdrawal for new inmates, but it might let them quit a nasty, expensive habit while they're in. Plus, it's bad for the health of everyone in there, whether they're smoking or not, including the guards; they have no choice in being able to get away from smokers like you would do on the outside.

Sorry but this is ridiculous. Your solution to inmates having crappy lives is to impose even more arbitrary restrictions on them? This would make sense only if they could voluntarily go outside for a smoke whenever they want or go to a special smoking room or whatever.

In a small space like a prison where people by definition can't get out, it seems draconian to let people smoke in light of the fact that there are others who don't want to inhale that and may have medical conditions exacerbated by it. By default, the recreational hobby of smoking should be disallowed.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#29

What's his plan? Take it day by day? Watch his back? Also (infer no adversarial tone), he seems to imply that he needs to be prepared to defend himself against attack, ostensibly using his lingering Krav Maga skill and instincts. Does that violate his pacifism? Maybe "pacifist", in this context, should be understood to mean "unaffiliated with any gang".

I think it means that he wont be starting fights and will be avoiding them. It does not mean he is naive about why no one attacked him (weight and tough look plays role according to him). It does not mean that if someone attacks him when guards dont look, he will let himself being beaten without attempting self defense.

Re: A pacifist's plan to survive the violent world of prison

#30
post #17

A 6'4" 220 pound pacifist. And he's concerned how he'll fare. What a shitshow we are.

I've read and heard that size doesn't mean anything in prison. If you're a horse you'll just get jumped by 8 dudes. If that fails, next time 10 dudes. It isn't like the movies.

What you've read is a distorted stereotype. Prisons are extraordinarily violent places by normal standards, but "extraordinarily violent" means that something like 20% of prisoners report being assaulted. A substantial majority of prisoners can expect to avoid being seriously victimized, although I want to be clear that I'm not implying that unlucky 20% somehow deserve it.
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