Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future • Hacker News Board

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#21

Post by _jahh » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

mortenjorck wrote: post #7

The problem with solarpunk is right there in its name: Nearly everything that gets labeled solarpunk is simply not punk. Punk music was born as an expression of the cultural and economic alienation of youth in Thatcher's UK. Cyberpunk was the extrapolation of this into a world defined by the trends of the 1980s: accelerating technology that dehumanizes, unchecked globalization, runaway capitalism that leaves a perman…

punk also has forever been an alternative and largely self propelled culture, from zines to food not bombs if the solar punk is sustainable societies built separate from mainstream destructive society i don't see how it isn't punk.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#22

Post by ruined » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 8:56 PM UTC

many of you here in the comments misunderstand.

punk isn't nihilistic lamentation, it's nihilistic resistance. it's punk to fight. it's building anything from nothing, because there is nothing to lose. punk cultures appear within dystopia as an alternative, punk aesthetic is amateur and diy-accessible, and punk attitudes are critical and creative.

we have enough dystopic warnings. everyone knows where we're headed. alienation and addiction are here, at the beginning of the plot. now we have the conflict, the departure from weakness, and eventually a resolution. solarpunk aesthetically charts a clear course through the narrative arc, it is mid-plot resourceful strength and a possible budding victory beyond the climax of struggle.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#23

Post by xarthna » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

_jahh wrote: post #20

vsareto wrote: post #3

IMO Solarpunk is cool, but it's not going to offer many realistic social lessons or warnings like cyberpunk does because it still relies on globalisation, huge logistics networks, and large factories to support the lifestyle and direction it promotes. In that sense, it's at odds with itself because there's still a divided population who have to work to support that infrastructure while the solarpunks get the real fre…

I'd like to believe the punk component is like DIY 3-d printing wind turbine arrays, setting up solar powered mesh networks financed by distributed cryptocoin miners.

This is how I interpreted it as well. As the article states, 'farming on every corner'.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#24

Post by 627467 » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:01 PM UTC

ruined wrote: post #22

many of you here in the comments misunderstand. punk isn't nihilistic lamentation, it's nihilistic resistance. it's punk to fight . it's building anything from nothing, because there is nothing to lose. punk cultures appear within dystopia as an alternative, punk aesthetic is amateur and diy-accessible, and punk attitudes are critical and creative. we have enough dystopic warnings. everyone knows where we're headed.…

I agree. I also agree that the author, like many who try to define solarpunk by pulling utopic goals (ie startrek utopia, singapore vs HK) and fantasies, confuse the readers on what is punk and solarpunk.

Punk is not about where you are going, is not about what will become. Punk is about doing it regardless of that and what others expect you to. A solarpunk is certainly hopeful that actions will lead to a better reality, but they are more focused on action today than what will be of tomorrow.

A solarpunk is a punk because, unlike other more mainstream ecologist they don't need to convince others of their view to act. They just act.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#25

Post by black_puppydog » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

The one problem I have with solarpunk is that much of the fiction is simply not that good. I think most emblematic of that is maybe Cory Doctorow's book "Walkaway".

I have lately come to accept that the book had a huge influence on me; it just keeps coming up in conversation. Well... I bring it up, because it struck a chord, and because it fits well with the conversations I have.

But the writing is so.... aaaargh, so shoddy at times. And half of the book is just a brain dump of ideas and projections of current trends in the future, but it's just not presented as a good plot line. It's very clear that the intention is to wrap some (powerful) ideas into a plot to make it digestible, but it's just not that well executed.

But as I said, I made my peace with this love-hate relationship I have with the book. I just hope there will be more, better solarpunk art. Something I can actually recommend to friends without it feeling like homework.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#26

Post by Nasrudith » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

vsareto wrote: post #3

IMO Solarpunk is cool, but it's not going to offer many realistic social lessons or warnings like cyberpunk does because it still relies on globalisation, huge logistics networks, and large factories to support the lifestyle and direction it promotes. In that sense, it's at odds with itself because there's still a divided population who have to work to support that infrastructure while the solarpunks get the real fre…

Cyberpunk offers realistic social lessons or warnings? That is news to me like the number of cyborg street thugs and automatic weapon proliferation. Jokes aside it is a Texas Sharpshooter fallacy and more something that one can look back on and find resemblances by comparision like say Star Trek and Tricorders vs cell phones and replicators vs 3d printing.

I don't think that is a difference on solarpunk's part though. One thing that became more and more explicit with cyberpunk was that the "independence from society" was fundamentally a lie the "fringer" told themself because they broke into offices and factories for money instead of working in them and obeyed laws only when the barrel of a gun was staring them down but fundamentally they were just as much as an interchangeable cog as everybody else. Getting over that delusion could be considered a painful step forward as they need either steps towards truer independence or move to try to change what they don't like about society. They don't have to be subservient proles by any means but well the first step to solving a problem is recognition.

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#27

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:17 PM UTC

627467 wrote: post #24

ruined wrote: post #22

many of you here in the comments misunderstand. punk isn't nihilistic lamentation, it's nihilistic resistance. it's punk to fight . it's building anything from nothing, because there is nothing to lose. punk cultures appear within dystopia as an alternative, punk aesthetic is amateur and diy-accessible, and punk attitudes are critical and creative. we have enough dystopic warnings. everyone knows where we're headed.…

I agree. I also agree that the author, like many who try to define solarpunk by pulling utopic goals (ie startrek utopia, singapore vs HK) and fantasies, confuse the readers on what is punk and solarpunk. Punk is not about where you are going, is not about what will become. Punk is about doing it regardless of that and what others expect you to. A solarpunk is certainly hopeful that actions will lead to a better real…

[deleted]

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#28

Post by lawrenceyan » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

ruined wrote: post #22

many of you here in the comments misunderstand. punk isn't nihilistic lamentation, it's nihilistic resistance. it's punk to fight . it's building anything from nothing, because there is nothing to lose. punk cultures appear within dystopia as an alternative, punk aesthetic is amateur and diy-accessible, and punk attitudes are critical and creative. we have enough dystopic warnings. everyone knows where we're headed.…

I wrote a bit about Solarpunk a few months back in March [0].

It's interesting that you framed things through the concept of a narrative arc because that's exactly how I pictured it when I wrote my piece. I wonder if it's because as humans, both individually and within the context of society as a whole, it's important for us to have a sense of direction / purpose when carrying out action.

[0]: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/possibility-adversity-hope-fa...

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#29

Post by itsoktocry » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:39 PM UTC

notankies wrote: post #12

bluntfang wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Solarpunk," to me, sounds pretty wholesome and very much in line with the direction that society wants to go. I'm not sure if you're paying attention, but current society wants capitalism and consumption until the earth has been pillaged. For instance, Joe Biden said no fracking after 2050. That's 30 years from now.

That's right, we need to end fossil fuel usage right now. If we don't switch solely to solar and wind worldwide in the next ten years there's going to be an apocalyptic ecological event. It's a climate crisis. I don't understand why people can't just follow the science. It doesn't matter how much food and energy prices would rise if fossil fuels were abruptly banned; a few poor peoples' ability to eat or stay warm is…

>If we don't switch solely to solar and wind worldwide in the next ten years there's going to be an apocalyptic ecological event.

Well, being as how there's 0% probability of us ending fossil fuel usage in that time, I guess we'll put your prediction to the test. Personally, I don't see it happening...

Re: Beyond Cyberpunk: Towards a Solarpunk Future

#30

Post by evgen » Sat, Oct 24, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

black_puppydog wrote: post #25

The one problem I have with solarpunk is that much of the fiction is simply not that good. I think most emblematic of that is maybe Cory Doctorow's book "Walkaway". I have lately come to accept that the book had a huge influence on me; it just keeps coming up in conversation. Well... I bring it up, because it struck a chord, and because it fits well with the conversations I have. But the writing is so.... aaaargh, so…

Doctorow is a pundit and pseudo-futurist who thinks he can write (or at least has convinced some small subset of this particular delusion.) In small doses like short stories or selected snippets from his novels there is a bit of fun, but too much and it becomes apparent that he is better at the idea than the literary execution.