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Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

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Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#21

Post by microarchitect »

zwischenzug wrote: post #20
rdtsc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you'll probably be downvoted for not being politically correct, but I agree with you. At least in my experience, most Indian-educated graduates I have worked with, were very willing to use a slew of acronyms to somehow trying to convince others that if they know the acronym, then they "understand" the concept. It is hard to describe it. You'll notice it when you encounter it.

It's the lack of education in the broader sense. I weed so many out in interview with simple comprehension questions. The trouble is that their education system and culture does them such a disservice that it's hard to spot the good ones in amongst the dross.

I'm not sure why you think it's question of culture. There are plenty of people of Indian origin in the US who have fairly strong ties to Indian culture, but I've never heard any complaints about them being unable to understand stuff.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#22

Post by rbanffy »

ojosilva wrote: post #17

Just for clarification: Richard Feynman, Nobel physicist wrote this piece about his experiences teaching in Brazil in... 1950. So I don't think this is a very precise account of education in Brazil nowadays, but it sure does sound like education there (and almost anywhere else) in the 50s -- my mom tells me she would read out loud to herself until dawn the day before an exam, as she was taught auditory learning. This…

It's soul-crushing to read this, isn't it?

Every day I am confronted with former students who have been taught like this. I took fluid dynamics 3 times, until I found a teacher willing to teach it instead of just letting us memorize the whole thing. When you really understand a subject, it's like hitting the light switch and realizing you were in a dark room.

I feel for those who live their professional lives in dark rooms.

OTOH, I am sure Mr. Feynman was no ordinary teacher himself. His students were very, very lucky. His bar was unusually high, impossibly high for many teachers.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#23

Post by raghava »

zwischenzug wrote: post #19
raghava wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> working with Indians Few Indians, you mean. (Though a majority of them would end up in that 'few' category)

Um, what?

I was merely remarking upon the fact that your comment classified all Indians in one category, that of folks who mug up jargon, acronyms and definitions but are not really knowledgeable about the actual usage. However, let me assure you, not all Indians are like that. There are Indians with reasonable thoughts and rational curiosity. In all your interactions you might not have seen such kind, that's certainly unfortunate.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#24

Post by rbanffy »

tybris wrote: post #16

Ouch, if they don't learn science, how will they ever appreciate the enormous wealth and beauty that is right in their backyard?

Most of us don't :-(

But don't feel too good about it. Science teaching is, for all I can gather, going down the drain just about everywhere.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#25

Post by gnosis »

"One other thing I could never get them to do was to ask questions. Finally, a student explained it to me: “If I ask you a question during the lecture, afterwards everybody will be telling me, ‘What are you wasting our time for in the class? We’re trying to learn something. And you’re stopping him by asking a question’.”"

This is not just a Brazilian problem. Much of the university education in the US is the same. Very few students ask questions and consider question asking to be a waste of time.

Rote memorization just to pass tests is sadly all too prevalent in US universities as well.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#26

Post by gnosis »

raghava wrote: post #13
microarchitect wrote: post #8

The problem boils down to just one thing. The teachers don't understand what they're teaching themselves, so they confuse memorization and repetition with learning. The students who are good at this are rewarded because they do better in the exams, and slowly but surely all the joy of understanding science is beaten out of a student. I can relate to this personally. Until I started college, I really understood what I…

In India, usually people who could not land a plum corporate job would resort to teaching (UG level) and they are entrusted with the job of shaping the next batch of engineers/artists. Also, teaching as a job is not greatly rewarding financially, hence it is not a popular choice. One could only imagine the outcome. To state the facts, a school teacher teaching 4/5th grade kids would hardly be given a $150 salary. In…

$150 an hour? A day? A week? A month? A year?

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#27

Post by microarchitect »

gnosis wrote: post #26
raghava wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In India, usually people who could not land a plum corporate job would resort to teaching (UG level) and they are entrusted with the job of shaping the next batch of engineers/artists. Also, teaching as a job is not greatly rewarding financially, hence it is not a popular choice. One could only imagine the outcome. To state the facts, a school teacher teaching 4/5th grade kids would hardly be given a $150 salary. In…

$150 an hour? A day? A week? A month? A year?

I think he means a month. FWIW, I know primary school teachers making half that much in Bangalore.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#28

Post by Retric »

raghava wrote: post #23
zwischenzug wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, what?

I was merely remarking upon the fact that your comment classified all Indians in one category, that of folks who mug up jargon, acronyms and definitions but are not really knowledgeable about the actual usage. However, let me assure you, not all Indians are like that. There are Indians with reasonable thoughts and rational curiosity. In all your interactions you might not have seen such kind, that's certainly unfortu…

While my sample size is small Most Indians who end up as programming H1b's have similar issues. My guess is it's jarring for people because the people who get into software in India are the mostly the type of people who would do something else in the US.

PS: Still it's hard not to draw concussions about a country even know that your samples are biased.

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#29

Post by palish »

kalid wrote: post #18

I love this story because as Feynman puts it, there's a difference between knowing the name of something and really knowing it. Since we're on the topic of light -- despite going to a great school and taking several physics courses, I suffered from a severe misconception until about a month ago. Maybe you have it too. Think about a light wave. You might imagine a diagram like this: http://betterexplained.com/wp-conte…

Very informative, thank you!

Something I've been mulling over for awhile now is... what does it mean to represent a color with numbers?

That is, every pixel on our monitor is RGB 0 through 255. But what about in physics? Well, "color" is a photon whose wavelength falls between 400nm (short wavelength; intense energy; "ultra"-violet; and violet = blueish; therefore 400nm = "the blue side" of the EM spectrum; this is how I remember that) and 700nm (red).

So on one hand, we have three numbers, R, G, and B; on the other hand, we have a single number, wavelength.

Obviously, the answer is that R, G, and B have some significance to the human eye. But wait a minute; every human eye is different. Some people are color blind, for example. So these RGB values can't really claim to have a physical basis.

Now, what is the meaning of a combination of colors? Let's say, RGB(50,50,0) + RGB(0,50,50). Is the result RGB(50,100,50), like you'd expect?

I think not.

RGB is not a linear space. In the same way you can't add two points on the Richter scale, you can't add two RGB values and get a meaningful result, I think.

So then we have something called "sRGB", which claims to be a linear space. But really, sRGB is merely RGB space "warped" to conform to the gamma curves of standard monitors. It still has no physical meaning, as far as I can see.

I believe perhaps the correct answer is...

When a light source emits light (for example an incandescent light bulb), it's really emitting many different wavelengths along the EM spectrum. The final color is the result of our eyes combining those wavelengths.

So, to add two colors A and B, we must first convert them both from RGB back into the EM spectrum (think of it like a histogram, where the X axis is wavelength from 400nm to 700nm, and the Y axis is the intensity of each wavelength); then add the two spectrums; then finally convert the resulting spectrum back to RGB.

Will this produce the same results as (A + B)? I don't think so, but I haven't tried it.

Food for thought...

Re: Richard Feynman on education in Brazil

#30

Post by palish »

rbanffy wrote: post #22
ojosilva wrote: post #17

Just for clarification: Richard Feynman, Nobel physicist wrote this piece about his experiences teaching in Brazil in... 1950. So I don't think this is a very precise account of education in Brazil nowadays, but it sure does sound like education there (and almost anywhere else) in the 50s -- my mom tells me she would read out loud to herself until dawn the day before an exam, as she was taught auditory learning. This…

It's soul-crushing to read this, isn't it? Every day I am confronted with former students who have been taught like this. I took fluid dynamics 3 times, until I found a teacher willing to teach it instead of just letting us memorize the whole thing. When you really understand a subject, it's like hitting the light switch and realizing you were in a dark room. I feel for those who live their professional lives in dark…

See for yourself.

Richard Feynman - The Relation of Mathematics & Physics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SrHzSGn-I8

Richard Feynman - The Distinction of Past and Future: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kab9dkDZJY&feature=relat...

Richard Feynman - Law of Gravitation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s-wfpsmtyU&feature=mfu_i...

There are about 7 lectures total. They are all amazing.

(EDIT: Looks like they aren't all on Youtube. Watch them here: http://www.fotuva.org/news/project_tuva.html )

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