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Why are so many unprofitable companies the best performing stocks this year?

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21–30 of 140 posts

Re: Why are so many unprofitable companies the best performing stocks this year?

#21

I don’t know much about the stock market outside of throwing any savings I can muster into a vanguard fund, but articles like this remind me of the scene from Silicon Valley where the Pied Piper team is talking about finding a revenue stream. Their investor, the Mark Cuban caricature, Russ Hanneman butts in and yells at them about the dangers of showing revenue and how it proves you might only be a 2x-er. "It's not a…

"It's the perfect play!"

That show is so on point sometimes.

Re: Why are so many unprofitable companies the best performing stocks this year?

#22
If they are growing rapidly then that would be the primary issue.

Secondarily is a new kind of emotional injection from a wave of new retail investors. This happened in the .com when retail started in earnest with online trading.

And of course 'a kind of inflation'. The Fed is printing money like no tommorow, there's more money chasing fewer deals, very low interest rates. See: home prices.

Re: Why are so many unprofitable companies the best performing stocks this year?

#23
post #2

It's psychology-fueled. Also, a lot of companies reinvest profit so they don't have to pay taxes.

Don't they use accounting tricks these days so they can keep their cash and then carry it to the stock market? This has the double advantage to keep the stock market inflated and compared to R&D where you risk product failure, the stock market is backstopped by the government and risk-free. That's why we don't have flying cars. Instead of investment in core competencies we invest in the market.

We have flying cars. They are called Helicopters.

Re: Why are so many unprofitable companies the best performing stocks this year?

#25
The SaaS business model is just such a growth machine. If you have limited churn, expansion with existing customers, and sustained high growth you're going to be making a lot of money down the road. There's just so much lifetime value from SaaS customers and although the initial revenue is low per customer, it snowballs over time as more and more customers are added and services expanded. $CRM is a prime example of this phenomena.

It's also hard to use traditional metrics like EBITDA in a fast growing, expanding SaaS company. So much is based on future growth and revenues and getting over that hump to where the business becomes a raging cash geyser. Some will make it and some will not. But no one really knows who will make it and where they'll tap out today. For all we know many of these companies are unbelievably undervalued.

Additionally, I think there's a belief that there will be consolidation and many of these SaaS companies will be acquired. This has happened to an extent. Hell, the Mulesoft acquisition looks like a bargain today.

Re: Why are so many unprofitable companies the best performing stocks this year?

#26
The volatility of the market makes for easy profits. Did an excercise on marketwatch in school one time. I traded random symbols that met my criteria and made a fat virtual profit. I kept it going after the experiment and realized the only reason I did well was because of the variability of that time for the market. I would kill to have some extra cash to invest right now/3 months ago, panicked laymen make investing easy.

Re: Why are so many unprofitable companies the best performing stocks this year?

#27

I don’t know much about the stock market outside of throwing any savings I can muster into a vanguard fund, but articles like this remind me of the scene from Silicon Valley where the Pied Piper team is talking about finding a revenue stream. Their investor, the Mark Cuban caricature, Russ Hanneman butts in and yells at them about the dangers of showing revenue and how it proves you might only be a 2x-er. "It's not a…

> Their investor, the Mark Cuban caricature, Russ Hanneman

I didn't know that's what they had intended. I never once thought that's what they were going for.

Re: Why are so many unprofitable companies the best performing stocks this year?

#29
It is very simple. There are two things happening here. One: the Fed has invested trillions buying everything under the sun (not just t-bills) to prop up the markets and make it look the economy is fine. Two: interest rates are being held artificially low by the Fed and have been for a while. So people are desperate for returns and the only place to get it is equities.

It is a pyramid scheme and must pop someday. Really just depends on how/what/when the Fed does.

Re: Why are so many unprofitable companies the best performing stocks this year?

#30
It's psychological, but it also goes from an understanding that profits, in the rigid economic sense, don't reliably exist.

A profit is gain realized by buying things, recombining them using innovation, and selling at a favorable price. A true profit is something you make, again and again, and with diminishing returns because prices move and the gap closes, as with arbitrages. Rents, which are more reliable, are payments you collect because you own things. (You may use those things, or you may, using the more common sense of the word, rent those things out.)

Most "profits" are actually just rents. Rents extracted because the company owns real estate, rents extracted because of brand presence, interest (which is a rent on money) through financing programs, rents extracted because workers' need for daily survival has them systematically underpricing their labor, and rents on political capital (favorable regulatory environment).

Getting paid because you have a great idea is intermittent, and usually requires taking on a lot of risk, and risk is something established companies hate. Getting paid because you own something is easy-as-shit and forever reliable. Where does the car industry make the bulk of its gains? Not on selling the cars, but in financing. It's an evergreen business, so long as there is capitalism-- there will always be people who need money they don't have, and it will always be an easy business to collect the vig.

Regular businesses eventually stop innovating-- they have plenty of smart people, but the bosses don't want to take risks because they're busy collecting personal rents by holding management positions, and obviously don't want to lose that-- and their "profits" converge to the rent roll on the resources they own. That's just how it works. Average equals mediocre, the latter used non-pejoratively.

That said, it's not sexy to imagine that one is investing into companies that have become mere utilities, that will continue to collect rents on the resources they own (of which a person can buy a tiny fractional share of the ownership) but not really do anything interesting.

These ultra-capitalist non-profits (non-profits-for-now) create the illusion that they're something different... that they're "rocket ship" companies run by people with supernatural talent and "vision", that they aren't rent-seekers using capital's native advantage over labor for reliable but unpulchritudinous gains... which is what all large companies are... but, instead, a kind of "new company" that is going to innovate moonshots and synergize us up a new century of prosperity, freedom, and magical puppies that never poop. Smart investors recognize that all of that is bullshit, and that these tech unicorns are just as exploitative as traditional companies (and, in fact, probably more so) but they also realize that dumber investors get the warm fuzzies and that there is therefore a premium.

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