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Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

lowtechmagazine.com

21–30 of 95 posts

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#21
post #2

Another cool energy storage technique is using subterranean flywheels. They'd probably require less maintenance than other similar energy storage mechanisms.

My Dad, (85 years old), recently posted an idea about using flywheels to store electricity -- it would give him a real kick if he knew people from here were taking a look at it: http://aoi.com.au/devices/KPW/

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#22
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any recommendations on how to learn more about this? My brother has a steep hill on his property and Ive been wondering about the feasibility of PSH. How high the tank should be, the equipment, the power output.

This isn't quite what you're after, but it's a pleasent read. https://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html there have been some discussions on here about it too. It at least gets you all the right words to start googling for turbine options which helped me to do some back of the envelope math. It's a steeper hill than seemed feasible to me.

Thid has reminded me of this gentleman who has been using gravity fed old washing machines as turbines for electricity generation on his property for 16 years https://youtu.be/Xb6TIWub6KU

He doesn't need the pumped storage part of the equation due to a natural water flow, but it is part of the solution at least.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#23

Slightly of-topic: compressed air is the preferred source of power for the tools of Amish people, since their religion doesn't allow them to use electricity or internal combustion engines. https://www.cottagecraftworks.com/home-goods/self-sufficient...

I've been obsessed with technology that skirts religious laws for a while now. Whole house pneumatic systems to run $800 dollar non-electric blenders. Elevators that spend the sabbath atomically opening on each floor. Automatic timers to complete forbidden circuits. I would love to spend an hour or two with a rabbinical scholar. Does walking in front of a motion senor complete a circuit? Are you allowed to ask an AI to do something on the Shabbat?

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#24

Slightly of-topic: compressed air is the preferred source of power for the tools of Amish people, since their religion doesn't allow them to use electricity or internal combustion engines. https://www.cottagecraftworks.com/home-goods/self-sufficient...

Since you mentioned it, are you aware if other energy sources are allowed, such as waterwheels or windmills? Otherwise, how do you compress the air in the first place? How is the air compressor filled without electricity?

I vaguely know some Mennonites. One guy has a cell phone and car transmission repair businesses, and computers, but he only uses those things for certain tasks and does not keep the technology in his home. He uses it at work. He locks up his phone and pc when not using them for work.

Not that this guy is representative or anything, just an anecdote. Neither group is homogeneous, and I don’t mean to single anyone out.

The different approaches to technology, and the varied applications of technology, in service both to secular and sacred ends is interesting to me.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#25
post #5

For fixed-site applications of sufficient land area and scale, it's difficult to beat pumped-storage hydroelectricity (PSH). The round-trip efficiency is around or above 70%, the same or better than CAES. CAES is probably best used in applications similar to flywheel (FES), away from occupied areas.

Do you have any recommendations on how to learn more about this? My brother has a steep hill on his property and Ive been wondering about the feasibility of PSH. How high the tank should be, the equipment, the power output.

You could start by just calculating the potential energy of the volume of the tank you are considering, and the difference in elevation between the reservoirs (volume x 1 kg/L x gravity x elevation difference, plug in the units of your choice and let google figure it out).

I suspect the amount of energy is far less than you are imagining... It takes a lot of water to generate a useful amount of energy. This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66YRCjkxIcg) does an interesting demo and points out that a 5 gallon bucket on a ladder has the same potential energy as a watch battery.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#26

This article seems to assume we'd convert the compressed air to electricity, but I could think of a bunch of applications that could use mechanical air power instead. Blenders, washers, dryers, dish washers, garage door openers. Basically anything that uses a motor.

Energy as electricity is like money. Pretty easy to convert to other forms of work and readily accepted as an input to many systems.

I doubt there's much of an ecosystem/incentive to build a compressed air --> conversion systems that are general enough for anything to use.

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#27

Slightly of-topic: compressed air is the preferred source of power for the tools of Amish people, since their religion doesn't allow them to use electricity or internal combustion engines. https://www.cottagecraftworks.com/home-goods/self-sufficient...

I've been obsessed with technology that skirts religious laws for a while now. Whole house pneumatic systems to run $800 dollar non-electric blenders. Elevators that spend the sabbath atomically opening on each floor. Automatic timers to complete forbidden circuits. I would love to spend an hour or two with a rabbinical scholar. Does walking in front of a motion senor complete a circuit? Are you allowed to ask an AI…

Can you use your smart speaker to call your rabbi?

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#28

Slightly of-topic: compressed air is the preferred source of power for the tools of Amish people, since their religion doesn't allow them to use electricity or internal combustion engines. https://www.cottagecraftworks.com/home-goods/self-sufficient...

I've been obsessed with technology that skirts religious laws for a while now. Whole house pneumatic systems to run $800 dollar non-electric blenders. Elevators that spend the sabbath atomically opening on each floor. Automatic timers to complete forbidden circuits. I would love to spend an hour or two with a rabbinical scholar. Does walking in front of a motion senor complete a circuit? Are you allowed to ask an AI…

I'd call myself more amused than obsessed, but yeah, the same stuff fascinates me. Can Alexa act as a shabbos goy? Does that assign personhood to the machine, or are you still doing work by invoking it?

Re: Ditch the Batteries: Off-Grid Compressed Air Energy Storage (2018)

#30

For fixed-site applications of sufficient land area and scale, it's difficult to beat pumped-storage hydroelectricity (PSH). The round-trip efficiency is around or above 70%, the same or better than CAES. CAES is probably best used in applications similar to flywheel (FES), away from occupied areas.

The world's first commercial liquid air battery project has been commissioned to be built in Trafford, Greater Manchester, UK - it's a very residential area: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/greater-manchester-to-hou....

This guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMLu9Dtw9yI) makes some good points about how cheap and scalable the technology is for medium-scale energy storage. It uses tried and tested, reliable and simple components for example

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