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Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

snap.berkeley.edu

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Re: Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

#21

Post by cycomachead »

ladberg wrote: post #9
jansan wrote: post #8

Can anyone tell be in one or two sentences how this relates to Scratch? Is is an alternative, is it used by Scratch, is it something different although it looks very similar?

It's based off Scratch's UI but doesn't share any code. It has a lot more features that delve more into computer science instead of scripting like in Scratch. I believe it was also available in-browser before Scratch was, but I'm not sure.

All correct! That's pretty much it!

Snap! is designed to allow students write code in the same way they might in Scratch, but then move them on to exploring CS concepts. It's also somewhat more extensible, including allowing people to make blocks pseudo-natively in JS. (We don't really expect students to do this, but it's a great way for instructors to build tools for assignments or just experiment with ideas not yet in the language.)

Re: Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

#22

Post by cycomachead »

chewxy wrote: post #7

The description of Hyperblocks leaves much to be desired. Are they just shape-generic blocks?

Pretty much. I think "just" is oversimplifying a bit of how powerful they can be, but yes all the reporter blocks are shape generic, and we're exploring whether other tools can be as well. Could we build a really intuitive version of np.vectorize? Maybe. :)

Re: Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

#23

Post by enricozb »

xiaomai wrote: post #10

I taught a high-school Intro to CS course last year with the TEALs program ( https://tealsk12.org ). I was very unenthusiastic when I heard that the first semester was taught using Snap, but I was wrong. Snap is a pretty awesome way to introduce someone to programming (much more powerful and reliable than other block-based programming environments I've tinkered with like the Kano kit). The one really terrible thing a…

I thought the message broadcasting and asynchronous behavior of Snap is really cool, specifically how sprites can have multiple code blocks each responding to messages or events.

I'm actually listening to a TEALS meeting right now! Funny to see it on HN.

Re: Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

#24

Post by quickthrower2 »

cycomachead wrote: post #19
quickthrower2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local storage might be a lifesaver here. Just in case someone forgets to save offer auto recovery. This can be done client side with no server costs.

Trust me, I know. But even here we run into issues, such as projects over the local storage limit, and the fact that (well, until COVID...sigh), a non-trivial number of students were in computer labs that contained programs like deep freeze making anything local storage based headache inducing as a means of support.

Thanks. Would you say you need more contributors? And if you do what are you needing? Coders? Project Managers? Designers? Writers?

Re: Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

#25

Post by CyberDildonics »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #3

That is some seriously impressive improvement on performance and memory use; I'd be interested to know what exactly they did to do that (ex. did they realize they could rearrange something to do the same thing with less work, or is this just a lot of little optimizations adding up?). Also cool, if a little weird to me, to see full-blown map-reduce and APL-like features; I feel like that moves away from the "beginner'…

I would rather know what they did to warrant using over 20x the memory they are using now. I'm surprised people aren't embarrassed about that type of thing, but what happens here is people brag about fixing an egregious mistake.

If someone makes improvements on a mature program that a lot of people have worked on, that is impressive. If someone uses 20x the memory they need, that is fixing something that should never have shipped in the first place.

Then they say this memory reduction is reducing the program's ecological footprint. DDR4 uses 1.5 watts. In one day your refrigerator will use more electricity than your memory will in a year.

Re: Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

#26

Post by WalterGR »

DonHopkins wrote: post #6

Jens Mönig and Brian Harvey both received a National Technology Leadership Summit (NTLS) Educational Technology Leadership Award for their impact on educational technology over the course of a lifetime, for their work on Snap! https://ntls.info/ntls-educational-leadership-award/brian-ha... >[...] Snap! is a remarkable technological achievement. However, like Logo, its greatest achievement is arguably the educational…

It’s awesome to see Brian Harvey get recognition. He’s an incredible educator - the finest I’ve encountered - and I’ll be forever grateful that I got to experience that at Berkeley before he retired.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Harvey_(lecturer)

Re: Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

#27

Post by WalterGR »

amelius wrote: post #16

Note: it's not related to the package manager. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_(package_manager)

Alternately:

Note: it’s related to the visual programming language.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap!_(programming_language)

Or with full snark mode enabled:

Note: it’s about the visual programming language (2009) and not the package manager (2014.)

:)

Re: Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

#28

Post by chewxy »

cycomachead wrote: post #22
chewxy wrote: post #7

The description of Hyperblocks leaves much to be desired. Are they just shape-generic blocks?

Pretty much. I think "just" is oversimplifying a bit of how powerful they can be, but yes all the reporter blocks are shape generic, and we're exploring whether other tools can be as well. Could we build a really intuitive version of np.vectorize? Maybe. :)

Now I am intrigued. Checking it out in detail tonight.

Re: Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

#29

Post by cycomachead »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #24
cycomachead wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, I know. But even here we run into issues, such as projects over the local storage limit, and the fact that (well, until COVID...sigh), a non-trivial number of students were in computer labs that contained programs like deep freeze making anything local storage based headache inducing as a means of support.

Thanks. Would you say you need more contributors? And if you do what are you needing? Coders? Project Managers? Designers? Writers?

Depends on what you're doing, but coding is probably the obstacle. There's about 4 of us working various amounts of part time.

In the case of auto-save, there's a lot of unsettled design trade-offs, and other needs keep coming up. But if you're curious, you're welcome to check out the GitHub: snap-cloud/snapCloud is the backend, and jmoenig/snap is the main IDE.

Re: Snap! 6 is here, and it's all about scale

#30

Post by quickthrower2 »

cycomachead wrote: post #29
quickthrower2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Would you say you need more contributors? And if you do what are you needing? Coders? Project Managers? Designers? Writers?

Depends on what you're doing, but coding is probably the obstacle. There's about 4 of us working various amounts of part time. In the case of auto-save, there's a lot of unsettled design trade-offs, and other needs keep coming up. But if you're curious, you're welcome to check out the GitHub: snap-cloud/snapCloud is the backend, and jmoenig/snap is the main IDE.

Yeah as a beginner at open source contributing (but not development) I'd be looking to fix tiny bugs first anyway!
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