It's probably worth referencing yesterday's discussion on "Pentagon funnels $7.4B in surplus military gear to police", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24745955
Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows
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Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows
#22The question here, in my opinion, is whether we're looking at actual causation or simple correlation. Is this an example of, "receiving free coyote-colored tacticool gear and MRAPs prompts cops to become more aggressive, detached from the population they are ostensibly there to protect, and likely to unnecessarily end civilian lives in the course of doing their job"? Or is it an example of, "police departments with t…
It seems like those two causes plausibly amplify each other - machismo warrior culture more likely to take military gear, which in turn makes it easier to recruit more machismo types.
Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows
#23The question here, in my opinion, is whether we're looking at actual causation or simple correlation. Is this an example of, "receiving free coyote-colored tacticool gear and MRAPs prompts cops to become more aggressive, detached from the population they are ostensibly there to protect, and likely to unnecessarily end civilian lives in the course of doing their job"? Or is it an example of, "police departments with t…
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Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows
#24While I think these finding would hold up to be true, I find it difficult to believe they can sufficiently account for external factors given the sample size is 261 deaths. I wish they could perform the same comparison using police shootings, though I doubt that data would be available to the press.
Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows
#25The question here, in my opinion, is whether we're looking at actual causation or simple correlation. Is this an example of, "receiving free coyote-colored tacticool gear and MRAPs prompts cops to become more aggressive, detached from the population they are ostensibly there to protect, and likely to unnecessarily end civilian lives in the course of doing their job"? Or is it an example of, "police departments with t…
I would like to see if there is an correlation between the hiring of ex-military people, the purchase of military equipment, and any increase in police-related violence. Many people think that soldiers make good cops. In reality, the jobs share almost nothing in common.
Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows
#26> In Georgia alone, police departments and sheriff’s offices have received more than 2,700 military rifles, night vision goggles and laser gun sights, and literally hundreds of armored vehicles, including more than two dozen mine-resistant vehicles built to fight the war on terror abroad. How else will they protect themselves in the dangerous minefields of Atlanta? /s I’m glad someone has put together the data on thi…
> How else will they protect themselves in the dangerous minefields of Atlanta? They could put the money into dealing with the social problems that cause it to be a "minefield". Their job is to protect citizens including criminals . They're not doing it properly if they're shooting people. And they're likely making people a lot more likely to shoot at them in the process.
The amount of money spent on this gear won't make a dent in resolving these societal issues. Our police are a bandaid on top of a deep wound that is our failings in mental health, poverty, and education.
Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows
#27The question here, in my opinion, is whether we're looking at actual causation or simple correlation. Is this an example of, "receiving free coyote-colored tacticool gear and MRAPs prompts cops to become more aggressive, detached from the population they are ostensibly there to protect, and likely to unnecessarily end civilian lives in the course of doing their job"? Or is it an example of, "police departments with t…
In social sciences cause and effect often intermixed. It is pain in the ass for researchers. From the other hand, it means that it not so important to distinguish cause and effect.
If we had a correlation, we would have a predictor, so we could do something about it. Just studying agencies with military gear would change outcomes. Even media discussing this correlation could change things. The role of an observer even more noticeable than with quantum phenomena.
Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows
#28> In Georgia alone, police departments and sheriff’s offices have received more than 2,700 military rifles, night vision goggles and laser gun sights, and literally hundreds of armored vehicles, including more than two dozen mine-resistant vehicles built to fight the war on terror abroad. How else will they protect themselves in the dangerous minefields of Atlanta? /s I’m glad someone has put together the data on thi…
> How else will they protect themselves in the dangerous minefields of Atlanta? They could put the money into dealing with the social problems that cause it to be a "minefield". Their job is to protect citizens including criminals . They're not doing it properly if they're shooting people. And they're likely making people a lot more likely to shoot at them in the process.
> They could put the money into dealing with the social problems that cause it to be a "minefield".
I think you're missing the joke here, here's the relevant part of the gp:
> > including more than two dozen mine-resistant vehicles built to fight the war on terror abroad.
> How else will they protect themselves in the dangerous minefields of Atlanta?
Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows
#29I'm not saying it's warranted for Police to have military weapons - but wouldn't departments that request military gear be somewhat correlated with ones with more intense crime. I'm guessing there aren't many sleepy hamlets that request the high-end stuff.
Why guess when the data is out there?
https://www.themarshallproject.org/mp-graphics/201412-dod/em...
Re: Police killings more likely in agencies that get military gear, data shows
#30> In Georgia alone, police departments and sheriff’s offices have received more than 2,700 military rifles, night vision goggles and laser gun sights, and literally hundreds of armored vehicles, including more than two dozen mine-resistant vehicles built to fight the war on terror abroad. How else will they protect themselves in the dangerous minefields of Atlanta? /s I’m glad someone has put together the data on thi…
The worst part about the police getting military gear is that the actual military has much stricter rules of engagement. With great power comes great responsibility.
Yep, even in a warzone, if a member of the US military killed somebody because they thought they were reaching for a gun, they would be court-martialed and put in jail, and then kicked out of the military after their sentence.
The standard for police in the USA is appallingly low, and getting lower.