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Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

blog.scottlogic.com

21–30 of 187 posts

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#21

I laugh when I read this because the DataHand was so much better but inefficiently manufactured and badly-priced. Five motions per finger well, macros, and mouse control 20-something years ago.

Have you used one? I have always wondered how people find the side to side finger motions to be, in terms of strain and ergonomics. It feels like an unnatural movement. To be clear I've never used one myself.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#22
I also fell down the rabbit hole earlier this year, and eventually I learned that keyboard layouts are like the pirate code: they're more like guidelines than rules, really. I don't know why I felt weird about modifying my personal layouts, but once I got past that I had a much better experience. I don't think it has negatively affected my ability to type on "normal" keyboard in any material way.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#23
I would have been perfectly happy if Microsoft had just kept making the Natural 4000 forever. Logitech has some 20+ year old designs they keep producing because for some people they're perfection, and I'd hoped Microsoft would continue likewise since it's been well over a decade with the 4000 too.

But nope, it's dead, and the replacement isn't nearly as good.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#24
I, myself, went down a similar rabbit hole years ago. I could probably write a similarly long blog post, detailing all the twists and turns, highs and lows of that period. Reading this was kinda triggering some repressed PTSD from it lol.

The highs and lows, thinking that you've found the perfect layout, only to encounter an edge case which there's no solution for and giving up. The continual wishful thinking that "one more modification" and THEN I would have the perfect layout, without ever knowing if that's true. And then when do you stop? I couldn't find a point where I would ever stop, it was maddening. I used a Japanese keyboard for a while [1] to leverage the extra keys on either side of space bar, but then I realized that I probably wouldn't be able to use a laptop normally ever again, which was enough to snap me back to QWERTY.

In the end, I did end up going back to QWERTY, but with some modifications, which I really think improve the problems I have with the layout (sore pinkies) [2], most commonly from jupyter notebooks (hitting shift-enter). It also solves emacs pinky.

[1] - https://www.amazon.com/SolidTek-Keyboard-Languages-JAPANESE-...

[2] - https://github.com/ebanner/dotfiles#keyboard-layout

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#25
post #23

I would have been perfectly happy if Microsoft had just kept making the Natural 4000 forever. Logitech has some 20+ year old designs they keep producing because for some people they're perfection, and I'd hoped Microsoft would continue likewise since it's been well over a decade with the 4000 too. But nope, it's dead, and the replacement isn't nearly as good.

That keyboard with actually good switches would have been perfect. The squishy rubber comes on the ergo 4000 are really hard to come backs to after using a good keyboard. But the layout is excellent.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#26

I've been enjoying my ergodox, but have yet to venture out into the layout customization side of things. The default layout (mostly QWERTY, but split ortholinear) took a week or so to learn and has been totally fine. My only problem with it is that so many of the modifiers depend on my pinkies, which are my weakest finger. Luckily, the default layout maps control as "hold Z key" which means my pinky doesn't need to t…

Why not use thumb keys for modifiers? I thought that's what most people did.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#27
Considering using multiple keyboards is what triggered this rabbit hole, note that the Logitech Craft can be used with 3 computers at the same time (there are keys to switch which one you're targeting), it's very convenient and the keyboard is silent.

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/craft.920-...

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My solution was a Theragun, trackball mouse and a Truly Ergonomic keyboard.

I keep getting advertised Theraguns and similar things almost non-stop on Instagram. Are they worth the expense? And how/where are you using it to improve carpal tunnel?

No do some boulders, best training for your hole body and you don't even feel it (mainly because you don't want to fall down), BUT start slow and easy for the first 3 month, your ligaments need much MUCH longer to grow strong than your muscles.

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#29
post #23

I would have been perfectly happy if Microsoft had just kept making the Natural 4000 forever. Logitech has some 20+ year old designs they keep producing because for some people they're perfection, and I'd hoped Microsoft would continue likewise since it's been well over a decade with the 4000 too. But nope, it's dead, and the replacement isn't nearly as good.

I used the 4000 for a number of years, but found that it was causing problems in my right shoulder. The reason is the inclusion of a full numpad makes the keyboard so wide that your mouse hand has to sit really far to your right, causing your shoulder to be in a position of constant rotation and eventual strain. I eventually took a hacksaw to it to remove the numpad, which improved things - but it was the main reason I preferred the successor (sculpt) as the numpad is a separate detachable piece. These days I'm a split keyboard ergodox weirdo because it lets me put a trackpad in between the keyboard segments which means my shoulders can stay in a neutral position the whole time

Re: Down the ergonomic keyboard rabbit hole

#30

I use a slightly configured Kinesis Advantage 2 and colemak as my keyboard layout (I used to make the Kinesis do the colemak, but now its just qwerty and the OS handles colemak). I find typing on it extremely comfortable. I've also found these beneficial: https://www.mycarpaltunnel.com/ I like Ergodox, especially because of their super flexible configuration, but I dislike the flatness of the keyboard compared to the…

The makers of the Ergodox EZ (it's open source so you can get Ergodoxes from various sources as well as build your own) also make the Moonlander, which is a step closer to the Kinesis in shape.

I looked into it as a potentially more mobile alternative to the Kinesis but decided to stick with the Kinesis.

I'm hoping if my current keyboard ever dies Kinesis will have a new QMK-based version that comes in two halves, or that the Dactyl Manuform becomes something that you can buy a solid transportable version of.

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