It remains unclear what Apple's motives were in collecting this information and regardless of how accurate the collected information is, I think the larger concern is that the database is unencrypted (although it does require root access) and is uploaded to a users computer upon backup.
Apple is not “recording your moves”
21–30 of 81 posts
Re: Apple is not “recording your moves”
#22I actually think my honest opinion on this fiasco is "someone can derive a user's movements from this database, but how big a deal is it really?" I still think this should be fixed, Apple should explain it and release an update that pares it down to the bare minimum data for whatever function it serves. However, let's honestly go through the implications of this: - The user's cell provider already knows this. [1] - I…
If it comes out that Apple is sending this data back to Cupertino
OK, that opinion didn't last long. Seems like they are sending it back, but at the same time it's well known about:
Re: Apple is not “recording your moves”
#23The piece is specifically positioned as a retort to a somewhat sensationalist O'Reilly piece, and in that context it's perhaps decent. But this headline alone on HN is at least as sensationalist - redefining "your phone is tracking your movements between cell towers with a general accuracy of 2km or less" to "your phone is not recording your moves" is just newspeak. Argue that the accuracy makes the data less usable…
+1 for use of "newspeak" in a sentence.
Re: Apple is not “recording your moves”
#24I actually think my honest opinion on this fiasco is "someone can derive a user's movements from this database, but how big a deal is it really?" I still think this should be fixed, Apple should explain it and release an update that pares it down to the bare minimum data for whatever function it serves. However, let's honestly go through the implications of this: - The user's cell provider already knows this. [1] - I…
The point I made in another thread on this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2468950
Basically by having it stored locally, it lowers the barriers to accessing data, so that it is no longer restricted to law enforcement people seeking telco data.
That changes a lot of things.
For instance imagine you're a police informant or undercover cop: a technically savvy mob would be silly not to hoover up the location data of everyone in their org, which could lead to some interesting discussions.
Re: Apple is not “recording your moves”
#25a) i love my -20. its a beautiful number.
b) i thought this site was about relevant hackery shit. get off uncle steve's dick and go make some money...its getting kinda embarrassing now.
c) write programs like shifting pure raw. "i'll ten k you a line a function at a time."
d) stop watching bad anime. its killing your productivity. and apple is a bad anime.
mod me down. please. most of you haven't seen any real digital corporate thuggery. u just do your ruby and crochet.
Re: Apple is not “recording your moves”
#26I actually think my honest opinion on this fiasco is "someone can derive a user's movements from this database, but how big a deal is it really?" I still think this should be fixed, Apple should explain it and release an update that pares it down to the bare minimum data for whatever function it serves. However, let's honestly go through the implications of this: - The user's cell provider already knows this. [1] - I…
The point I made in another thread on this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2468950 Basically by having it stored locally, it lowers the barriers to accessing data, so that it is no longer restricted to law enforcement people seeking telco data. That changes a lot of things. For instance imagine you're a police informant or undercover cop: a technically savvy mob would be silly not to hoover up the location data…
For instance imagine you're a police informant or undercover cop: a technically savvy mob would be silly not to hoover up the location data of everyone in their org,
Sure, but if they have root or physical access to the phone (which they need) they can install a realtime tracking snooper to follow you around instead.
I agree this lowers the barrier, but fundamentally it seems to come down to - if you don't want people knowing where you are, don't carry around a GPS-enabled always-on computer in your pocket!
Re: Apple is not “recording your moves”
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, the article is a reasonable refutation to that part of the O'Reilly claim, and that is an important fact to clarify. The article goes further though, and claims it's "not 'recording your moves'" and is just a "general place at a general time". I don't you can say that point-blank. As stated, I think that it's going to be entirely location-dependent as to whether the database can be treated as a "record of your…
The author says he was using his phone and the GPS often. If they wanted to track your moves and you have turned on the GPS, why doesn't it just, y'know, use the GPS data? Instead Apple tries to track your moves using cell towers? Seems like the only way this would be a record of your moves would be by coincidence.
My understanding is hte iPhone doens't actually have a GPS receiver in it at all. It only uses a fuzzily defined "assisted GPS" which is basically based completely on 3g towers.
They don't use the GPS satellites at all.
Re: Apple is not “recording your moves”
#28A better statement is: "Apple is not intentionally recording your moves." What they're instead doing is, when possible, retrieving cell network / SkyHook (wifi) data about Lat./Long. for towers/APs that your device can see and when it last saw them. This is for the Location service that an iOS device offers, so that if you choose to provide your location information to an app and it can't get a good GPS lock - this c…
Does the iphone even have real GPS? I believe it uses the cell tower info only.
Re: Apple is not “recording your moves”
#29The piece is specifically positioned as a retort to a somewhat sensationalist O'Reilly piece, and in that context it's perhaps decent. But this headline alone on HN is at least as sensationalist - redefining "your phone is tracking your movements between cell towers with a general accuracy of 2km or less" to "your phone is not recording your moves" is just newspeak. Argue that the accuracy makes the data less usable…
I just used the original headline from the blog. You're correct that it makes sense in context, but that is why the "recording your moves" part is in quotes. It's a direct quote from the O'Reilly headline.
Anyway the larger issue is that it is not clear exactly what information is being logged. We know some location info is vulnerable, but exactly what and how much? The O'Reilly researchers really should have done a better job. The least they should have done was to run some controlled experiments with a freshly wiped phone.
Re: Apple is not “recording your moves”
#30A better statement is: "Apple is not intentionally recording your moves." What they're instead doing is, when possible, retrieving cell network / SkyHook (wifi) data about Lat./Long. for towers/APs that your device can see and when it last saw them. This is for the Location service that an iOS device offers, so that if you choose to provide your location information to an app and it can't get a good GPS lock - this c…
Does the iphone even have real GPS? I believe it uses the cell tower info only.
It has both real GPS and Apple's own version of Skyhook.