Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals • Hacker News Board

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#21

Post by Gibbon1 » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 8:35 PM UTC

patfla wrote: post #14

It seems that's the same bay as for Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, which with a population of 180,000 is Kamchatska's largest city. So this is very close to what amounts to a large population for Kamchatka. The Russians have always been cavalier about pollution and, as much as it may be hard to believe for some Americans, even more cavalier than here in the US. Not the Russian people of course but their political systems…

> Sort of like the intermontane west generally in the US. Wasteland, right?

Well the western US is generally considered to be a delicate arid ecosystems that is really easy to mess up permanently. A lot of it was really messed up from timber cutting, mining, and cattle ranching in the 1800's.

And it only looks like it's recovered because no one remembers what it was like before. There is a valley where the Mormons found a rich verdant prairie. And of course they plowed it under and grew the best crop of wheat they ever saw. And the next winter the winds blew the topsoil away.

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#22

Post by rckt » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 8:38 PM UTC

There's Kozelsky pesticides landfill in the area. It was started there circa 1980, 35 km to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. There were 108 tons of unusable pesticides. The spill comes from the river Nalycheva, and the landfill is on the river Mutnushka which flows into the Nalycheva river.

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#23

Post by sradman » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

It seems odd that most of the animals pictured live on the sea floor. There are mostly urchins and the starfish that feed on them with a disheartening number of giant pacific octopus mixed in.

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#24

Post by philipkglass » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

rckt wrote: post #22

There's Kozelsky pesticides landfill in the area. It was started there circa 1980, 35 km to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. There were 108 tons of unusable pesticides. The spill comes from the river Nalycheva, and the landfill is on the river Mutnushka which flows into the Nalycheva river.

Very interesting. It is mentioned here:

"Regionally Based Assessment of Persistent Toxic Substances: Central and Northeast Asia Regional Report"

United Nations Environment Programme, December 2002

https://iwlearn.net/resolveuid/1946c1f28aed08b804427301ae5e0...

Kamchatka Oblast - Pesticide landfill built in 1979-1982 at foot of Kozelsky volcano. 102 t of various pesticides.

...

In the Central and North East Asia Region, the former Soviet Union has major hot spots for obsolete pesticides. A meeting held in Moscow on 7-8 February, 2001 by the Arctic Council for “The ecological reasonable management in field of stores of out-of-date pesticides“ project have identified priority Regions whereby the inventory of out-of-date pesticides should be documented. These Regions are the Kamchatka Peninsula, Krasnoyarsk Krai, Magadan Oblast, Sakha Republic (Yakutia) and Tyumen Oblast of the Russian Federation. Furthermore, inventory for out-of-date pesticides in three sub-boreal Regions have been identified: Altai Krai, Kurgan and Omsk Oblast (Shekhovtsov, 2002). Members of the Commonwealth of Independent States have a large quantity of PTS which are obsolete and redundant. A conservative estimate suggests there is greater than 150000 t of obsolete pesticides. Much is in poor condition and not properly managed (PAN UK, 2000).

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#25

Post by redisman » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 8:57 PM UTC

Gibbon1 wrote: post #21

patfla wrote: post #14

It seems that's the same bay as for Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, which with a population of 180,000 is Kamchatska's largest city. So this is very close to what amounts to a large population for Kamchatka. The Russians have always been cavalier about pollution and, as much as it may be hard to believe for some Americans, even more cavalier than here in the US. Not the Russian people of course but their political systems…

> Sort of like the intermontane west generally in the US. Wasteland, right? Well the western US is generally considered to be a delicate arid ecosystems that is really easy to mess up permanently. A lot of it was really messed up from timber cutting, mining, and cattle ranching in the 1800's. And it only looks like it's recovered because no one remembers what it was like before. There is a valley where the Mormons fo…

The native prairie biome has pretty much been completely eradicated in the US. Pretty impressive for what once dominated the land from Wisconsin to Montana

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#26

Post by vkou » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #16

vkou wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any examples of people in your country receiving jail time for polluting the environment? On second thought - that's not the right question to ask. The better question is - does your country have many examples of people not receiving jail time for polluting the environment?

> Do you have any examples of people in your country receiving jail time for polluting the environment? Yes [1]. The same is true across much of the EU. Russia’s lack of rule of law isn’t exactly headline material. [1] https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/criminal-press-releases-2019

The second question I pose is actually the more pertinent one - since it would be an apples to apples comparison.

From first glance, it seems to me that major polluters do not face fines, jail time, or other forms of censure in either Russia, the EU, or the US. All three of those groups, for instance, have functioning petrochemical extraction and refining industries, functional agricultural industries, etc.

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#27

Post by kingofpandora » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

pvg wrote: post #9

tandav wrote: post #7

related: there was another large poison spill in russia this year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norilsk_oil_spill

Norilsk is over 3500 km from Kamchatka.

Probably why the commenter said there was another oil spill in Russia.

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#28

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

rckt wrote: post #22

There's Kozelsky pesticides landfill in the area. It was started there circa 1980, 35 km to Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. There were 108 tons of unusable pesticides. The spill comes from the river Nalycheva, and the landfill is on the river Mutnushka which flows into the Nalycheva river.

[deleted]

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#29

Post by pvg » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 9:51 PM UTC

kingofpandora wrote: post #27

pvg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norilsk is over 3500 km from Kamchatka.

Probably why the commenter said there was another oil spill in Russia.

Probably but 'both are in Russia' is fairly poor relatedness. Norilsk is a mining center and one of the most polluted places on the planet. It's literally made of spills - rare earth metals are extracted straight out of the decades-long polluted soil.

Kamchatka is more like a less-developed, even more BFE, Russian Alaska.

Re: Eco disaster at Kamchatka peninsula with mass death of sea animals

#30

Post by refurb » Sat, Oct 03, 2020, 9:59 PM UTC

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #8

minerjoe wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country do you live in? In mine, the good ol' USA, captured regulators just make it all legal. See fracking, for example.

It’s legal to dump industrial diesel into rivers in the USA?

Of course not, but the OP thinks if it doesn’t pop up on his Twitter feed, there must be no enforcement.

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/criminal-investigations