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A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

swiftbysundell.com

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Re: A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

#21

Post by Austin_Conlon »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #10

I must have a different idea of what “deep dive” means; this is simply going through the (relatively simple) motions of implementing a builder. “Deep dive”, to me, would look at how the compiler translates statements using these builders, for example, or reverse-engineering Apple’s builders for juicy information. I’ve recently forayed into SwiftUI to see what all the fuss was. I have to say, I really feel for people…

I'm surprised to see NSHipster included in your criticism, can you elaborate or point to some articles for comparison?

Re: A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

#22

Post by Austin_Conlon »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #10

I must have a different idea of what “deep dive” means; this is simply going through the (relatively simple) motions of implementing a builder. “Deep dive”, to me, would look at how the compiler translates statements using these builders, for example, or reverse-engineering Apple’s builders for juicy information. I’ve recently forayed into SwiftUI to see what all the fuss was. I have to say, I really feel for people…

One YouTube channel that I think deserves more recognition for in-depth content is AppleProgramming. Here's a video from him on reverse engineering Cocoa controls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTCKXTPUeqY&list=PLgTh9sDnKC....

Re: A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

#23

Post by luigi23 »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #10

I must have a different idea of what “deep dive” means; this is simply going through the (relatively simple) motions of implementing a builder. “Deep dive”, to me, would look at how the compiler translates statements using these builders, for example, or reverse-engineering Apple’s builders for juicy information. I’ve recently forayed into SwiftUI to see what all the fuss was. I have to say, I really feel for people…

I feel you, but the ‘deep dive’ that you mentioned is not a reserved phrase onlh for super detailed, reverse-engineering articles. Nowadays it’s more and more difficult to find them since writing such article takes 10x of the time compared to standard one, and audience won’t grow, or even shrink(due to complexity and non practicality). I really like them though, especially when they’re written on some niche jekyll blog with atrocious layout - you can feel that it’s been written by a passionate.

Re: A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

#24

Post by chmaynard »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #10

I must have a different idea of what “deep dive” means; this is simply going through the (relatively simple) motions of implementing a builder. “Deep dive”, to me, would look at how the compiler translates statements using these builders, for example, or reverse-engineering Apple’s builders for juicy information. I’ve recently forayed into SwiftUI to see what all the fuss was. I have to say, I really feel for people…

There are some great examples of this type of in-depth analysis in Mike Ash's blog:

https://mikeash.com/pyblog/

Re: A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

#25

Post by auggierose »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #10

I must have a different idea of what “deep dive” means; this is simply going through the (relatively simple) motions of implementing a builder. “Deep dive”, to me, would look at how the compiler translates statements using these builders, for example, or reverse-engineering Apple’s builders for juicy information. I’ve recently forayed into SwiftUI to see what all the fuss was. I have to say, I really feel for people…

It's not that bad, I've stumbled across that particular article just 1 or 2 weeks ago because I wanted to check what kind of functionality of function builders I can use now for my DSL. It's probably more illuminating though to just try out for yourself... For example, while the article mentions "if let", does that mean "let" also works now?

And yes, I wish Apple had proper and up-to-date information on this somewhere.

Re: A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

#26

Post by Grustaf »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #10

I must have a different idea of what “deep dive” means; this is simply going through the (relatively simple) motions of implementing a builder. “Deep dive”, to me, would look at how the compiler translates statements using these builders, for example, or reverse-engineering Apple’s builders for juicy information. I’ve recently forayed into SwiftUI to see what all the fuss was. I have to say, I really feel for people…

There is a lot of deep material on SwiftUI, for example https:// swiftwithmajid.com and https://swiftui-lab.com. The latest edition of the excellent Stanford course also uses SwiftUI, and the tutorials by Apple are great.

Re: A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

#27

Post by transfire »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #10

I must have a different idea of what “deep dive” means; this is simply going through the (relatively simple) motions of implementing a builder. “Deep dive”, to me, would look at how the compiler translates statements using these builders, for example, or reverse-engineering Apple’s builders for juicy information. I’ve recently forayed into SwiftUI to see what all the fuss was. I have to say, I really feel for people…

> I'm getting old

And wiser.

Youth is wasted on the young. Unfortunately for the field of software development that means endless gyrations of over engineering and technobabel.

Re: A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

#28

Post by patriotapclypse »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #10

I must have a different idea of what “deep dive” means; this is simply going through the (relatively simple) motions of implementing a builder. “Deep dive”, to me, would look at how the compiler translates statements using these builders, for example, or reverse-engineering Apple’s builders for juicy information. I’ve recently forayed into SwiftUI to see what all the fuss was. I have to say, I really feel for people…

If you want actual in-depth articles, SwiftRocks has some good ones. For example: https://swiftrocks.com/how-never-works-internally-in-swift

I also share this opinion. This hard-on that companies have of making coding easy for everyone will be the field's downfall. Just look how people are outraged whenever algorithm's are mentioned in interviews. I lost track of how many people with "senior" positions coming to interview at my company and showing that they know absolutely nothing about anything. My explanation for this is that you have a bunch of people from other areas coming to tech simply because it's easy money. They don't care about becoming the next legendary developer or something like that, they just wanna make easy money. The result is that everything gets dumbed down as a result. I really hate this and it probably means that a lot of important knowledge will be lost when the old dogs die.

Re: A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

#29

Post by swiley »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #10

I must have a different idea of what “deep dive” means; this is simply going through the (relatively simple) motions of implementing a builder. “Deep dive”, to me, would look at how the compiler translates statements using these builders, for example, or reverse-engineering Apple’s builders for juicy information. I’ve recently forayed into SwiftUI to see what all the fuss was. I have to say, I really feel for people…

I think part of the issue is that there are fewer and fewer people who are both apple enthusiasts and have been apple developers for a long time.

Up until snow leopard lots of very old APIs had been kept around so actually pulling things apart was not only an interesting thing to do but even profitable (because the knowledge gained would be useful for years.) Contrast Apple's current generation of operating systems where the API churn is comparable to lots of JS frameworks. Not to mention how unfriendly the company has been to smaller developers

Re: A deep dive into Swift’s function builders

#30

Post by jdmoreira »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #10

I must have a different idea of what “deep dive” means; this is simply going through the (relatively simple) motions of implementing a builder. “Deep dive”, to me, would look at how the compiler translates statements using these builders, for example, or reverse-engineering Apple’s builders for juicy information. I’ve recently forayed into SwiftUI to see what all the fuss was. I have to say, I really feel for people…

I'm not disagreeing with you but I want to come here in defence of John Sundell as an excellent Swift programmer that is releasing amazing open source code.

I don't consume his content (neither his website nor his podcast) but he sure knows his Swift. His recent code is probably some of the best Swift code I've seen and I have very high standards for that.

He creates amazing DSLs / abstractions / APIs by leveraging the type system which in my opinion is exactly what Swift should be about.

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