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Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

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21–30 of 44 posts

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

#21
post #20

I think the elephant in the room for this study is the high bullshit scores of immigrants. If you're a non-native language speaker and someone asks if you understand something, you're probably used to having to figure it out offline - but you might say "yes" anyway, for a myriad of reasons. Something I find disingenuous in this study is the failure to follow up on competency. "High bullshit index" individuals claim w…

> the high bullshit scores of immigrants I think that statement is far too broad: I can think of some fairly bullshit free cultures, like many Scandinavian countries. I can also think of people from specific religions that I generally find to be bullshitty, versus people from the same country but a different religion that appear to me to be much more honest. Also a lot of people I meet from the USA appear to me to be…

Did you read the paper? They literally measure this. I was quoting a stat from the paper.

The point of my comment was to think critically about how they interpret their findings, in light of their very own findings.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

#22

As a developer, I've found that the Agile methodology is great for weeding out bullshitters. A decently run sprint planning session with a retrospective at the end will highlight who didn't actually do anything. The killer feature is that these people volunteered the amount of effort for the work and then have to explain why nothing got done. They eventually leave the team once they realise they've been discovered.

We spend our retros whinging about other teams that (are supposed to) support us.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

#23
post #20

I think the elephant in the room for this study is the high bullshit scores of immigrants. If you're a non-native language speaker and someone asks if you understand something, you're probably used to having to figure it out offline - but you might say "yes" anyway, for a myriad of reasons. Something I find disingenuous in this study is the failure to follow up on competency. "High bullshit index" individuals claim w…

> the high bullshit scores of immigrants I think that statement is far too broad: I can think of some fairly bullshit free cultures, like many Scandinavian countries. I can also think of people from specific religions that I generally find to be bullshitty, versus people from the same country but a different religion that appear to me to be much more honest. Also a lot of people I meet from the USA appear to me to be…

> Perhaps that is due to my own selection bias because of the type of people that emigrate or travel

Tangentially to the point, I'm going to hazard a guess that "people who travel to other cultures" are going to be more bullshit-oriented than average, due to factors jknoepfler referenced above, eg "If you're a non-native language speaker and someone asks if you understand something, you're probably used to having to figure it out offline".

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

#24
post #4

I've seen too many bullshitters in the software industry - people whose technical capabilities extend only as far as their ability to convince non-technical managers that they know what the fuck they're talking about. I've seen these people be promoted to positions where they can do serious damage, no longer a mere developer not knowing what the hell you're meant to be able to do - but a lead developer crippling an e…

so true, but its not just executives that get fooled. there's a whole company full of adjacent people, sales, marketing, finance, that fall for this bullshit too.

they add to this dust storm of fud that allows these people to exist.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

#25
post #12
post #4

I've seen too many bullshitters in the software industry - people whose technical capabilities extend only as far as their ability to convince non-technical managers that they know what the fuck they're talking about. I've seen these people be promoted to positions where they can do serious damage, no longer a mere developer not knowing what the hell you're meant to be able to do - but a lead developer crippling an e…

I think it's unfair to only blame developers for this bad culture in our industry. At every layer of the stack the same things happen. At my local government they reformed child benefits and needed a new IT system to handle it, of-course we ended up with the over-engineered enterprise architecture of micro-services running on kubernetes, communicating over an event bus with CQRS, continuous integration and continuous…

micro services on kubernetes is hardly over engineering things. its lightweight, fast and is easy to implement with.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

#26

I think the elephant in the room for this study is the high bullshit scores of immigrants. If you're a non-native language speaker and someone asks if you understand something, you're probably used to having to figure it out offline - but you might say "yes" anyway, for a myriad of reasons. Something I find disingenuous in this study is the failure to follow up on competency. "High bullshit index" individuals claim w…

> high bullshit scores of immigrants

I'm culturally from the US west coast. I have an instinct that directly asking someone from a face culture to admit ignorance is 'sensitive'

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

#27

I've discussed and recommended this article at length with various associates and colleagues, though I haven't actually read it and have no idea what it's talking about.

Sounds ready for most news aggregators. Just gotta be good at clickbait titles.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

#28
post #26

I think the elephant in the room for this study is the high bullshit scores of immigrants. If you're a non-native language speaker and someone asks if you understand something, you're probably used to having to figure it out offline - but you might say "yes" anyway, for a myriad of reasons. Something I find disingenuous in this study is the failure to follow up on competency. "High bullshit index" individuals claim w…

> high bullshit scores of immigrants I'm culturally from the US west coast. I have an instinct that directly asking someone from a face culture to admit ignorance is 'sensitive'

I'm from a non bullshit culture. They first greek word you learn is "den katalava", do not understand. (δεν κατάλαβα)

The 2nd phrase you learn is "den xero", do not know. (δεν ξέρω)

Some cultures prefer to be polite and therefore lie, some cultures prefer to tell the truth.

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

#29
post #12
post #4

I've seen too many bullshitters in the software industry - people whose technical capabilities extend only as far as their ability to convince non-technical managers that they know what the fuck they're talking about. I've seen these people be promoted to positions where they can do serious damage, no longer a mere developer not knowing what the hell you're meant to be able to do - but a lead developer crippling an e…

I think it's unfair to only blame developers for this bad culture in our industry. At every layer of the stack the same things happen. At my local government they reformed child benefits and needed a new IT system to handle it, of-course we ended up with the over-engineered enterprise architecture of micro-services running on kubernetes, communicating over an event bus with CQRS, continuous integration and continuous…

You're right, but that doesn't take away your capability to say "NO" and go against that stream of bullshit. Caveat: you'll probably lose everything except your morality at that point. That's how it's all set up after all...

Re: Bullshitters: Who Are They and What Do We Know about Their Lives? (2019) [pdf]

#30

As a developer, I've found that the Agile methodology is great for weeding out bullshitters. A decently run sprint planning session with a retrospective at the end will highlight who didn't actually do anything. The killer feature is that these people volunteered the amount of effort for the work and then have to explain why nothing got done. They eventually leave the team once they realise they've been discovered.

Having worked at many places with many bullshitters who have successfully conned the Agile process for weeks (sometimes months), I'd have to disagree.

(Indeed, I have done it once myself when I was trying to leave but they were dragging their feet about signing the paperwork.)

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