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A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

smithsonianmag.com

21–30 of 91 posts

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#21
post #9

There's a better way to add nitrogen to soil and it's through the nitrogen cycle. The US Midwest (which grows a lot of corn) used to be highly populated with ruminants who did exactly this. We killed them all (well, most) and now grow corn which we use most to finish off cattle, which is also a ruminant. Maybe a better solution would be to feed the ruminants off the land now used by the corn? Imagine what that might…

It would make the ruminants meat more expensive. That's a hard sell politically.

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#23

With all this mucus dripping, won't it need even more water? Wouldn't that be a problem in the dry future?

Compared to the the problem of nitrogen fixing in a future without haber-bosch fertilizer plants, water use barely registers.

Actually it does

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#24
post #9

There's a better way to add nitrogen to soil and it's through the nitrogen cycle. The US Midwest (which grows a lot of corn) used to be highly populated with ruminants who did exactly this. We killed them all (well, most) and now grow corn which we use most to finish off cattle, which is also a ruminant. Maybe a better solution would be to feed the ruminants off the land now used by the corn? Imagine what that might…

How do ruminants add nitrogen to the soil?

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#25
post #19
post #10

This is an extremely hard problem. I've been following efforts to replace nitrogen for around forty years. It's part of a bigger trend of the seed industry grabbing a larger portion of the crop production dollar. It's the science of GMO's. We've replaced some insecticides by letting the plants produce their own. We've eliminated some herbicides (weed sprays) by producing resistance in the plant to first Roundup and l…

Not supporting Monsanto's business model isn't the same thing as not 'listen[ing] to scientists'. The issues with blanket application of Glysophate combined with roundup resistant crops are real; application volumes have ballooned and we still don't have a scientific consensus on it's effects on humans. Ignoring, in the immediate, the potential health effects of the molecule, it is also a driving force in the expansi…

> Monocultural key foodcrops are a long-tail risk to food security. Not really, there are many different varieties of corn, many different crops (wheat, rycorn, soy etc). And the problem you speak of actually hasn't much to do with monoculture

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#27
post #10

This is an extremely hard problem. I've been following efforts to replace nitrogen for around forty years. It's part of a bigger trend of the seed industry grabbing a larger portion of the crop production dollar. It's the science of GMO's. We've replaced some insecticides by letting the plants produce their own. We've eliminated some herbicides (weed sprays) by producing resistance in the plant to first Roundup and l…

I don’t see how burning huge rainforest areas for monoculture corn plantations that now produce part of the insecticides that you use on their own and that you use tons of herbicides on to keep everything else out is in any way leading to more sustainability.

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#28
post #15
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this post insightful generally but I don't think the last sentence was necessary. It is possible to be an organic advocate irrespective of "listening to the scientists" on this or any other topic. Constructing and attacking this straw man doesn't really add anything to your post.

I think it's true though. The opposition to GMO foods is typically reflexive and unthinking. It's not grounded in logic or science. That's not to say throw all caution to the wind, but I've yet to hear anyone make a sound argument in this case. And there are at least good arguments to be made on both sides referencing the existing literature.

You don't really have any idea where opposition to GMO foods originates. You guess that it is reflexive and unthinking because that is convenient for you to guess.

There are strong arguments against, not necessarily GMO as a technology, but practically all existing commercial uses of it. Furthermore, each use of it is potentially an independent problem with its own dangers. Thus far the only beneficial use of it I have heard of is "yellow rice", which is not actually available, for purely capitalistic reasons.

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#29

Why can’t plants make their own nitrogenase? Why do they need to outsource the nitrogen fixation to bacteria?

They never invented it for themselves. Attracting nitrogen-fixing bacteria turned out to be easier. Nature loves easier.

Re: A variety of corn has evolved a way to make its own nitrogen (2018)

#30
post #19
post #10

This is an extremely hard problem. I've been following efforts to replace nitrogen for around forty years. It's part of a bigger trend of the seed industry grabbing a larger portion of the crop production dollar. It's the science of GMO's. We've replaced some insecticides by letting the plants produce their own. We've eliminated some herbicides (weed sprays) by producing resistance in the plant to first Roundup and l…

Not supporting Monsanto's business model isn't the same thing as not 'listen[ing] to scientists'. The issues with blanket application of Glysophate combined with roundup resistant crops are real; application volumes have ballooned and we still don't have a scientific consensus on it's effects on humans. Ignoring, in the immediate, the potential health effects of the molecule, it is also a driving force in the expansi…

I was in the fertilizer business for twenty plus years. I went from Roundup's original introduction in the seventies to the beginnings of Roundup Ready seed. I kept a book in my office (as an EPA requirement) that allowed any employee or customer to view the safety of each chemical.

Roundup was way safer to humans than the cocktail of other herbicides that it replaced. It felt like considerable progress at the time although we all knew it would lead to Roundup resistant weeds in time.

From the beginning there was a small but loud opposition to GMO seeds. Some scientist, usually in Europe, would produce a report that Roundup causes cancer or such. Six different Midwestern universities would try to duplicate the research, fail and then publish exactly where the original researcher made a mistake.

I don't claim to be a scientist but as an interested observer I think that's how the scientific process should work. Now they've switched battlefields to the courts and gained several early victories. I predict they will be overturned on appeal.

I agree with you on monocultural crops. I think rotation should be encouraged but I'm not exactly sure how to do it. What I don't want to see is the government telling farmers what they can plant. They could provide financial incentives however if they can convince the taxpayers it's worth the price.

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