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Dickheads (2015)

thebaffler.com

21–30 of 52 posts

Re: Dickheads (2015)

#21
post #10

> If hiding something is a way of declaring it a form of power, then hiding the male genitals is a way of declaring masculinity itself a form of power. This really was the high of the article for me. Exactly what combination would be needed for the author to declare that male clothing is neutral on masculine power? Genitals exposed -> Aggressive declaration of masculine power. Genitals hidden -> Passive aggressive de…

By application of rules 34 and 63, I expect somewhere someone's written an exploration of floral country matters[1] in women's clothing?

Soviet schoolgirls wore white floral bantiki in their hair:

https://imgprx.livejournal.net/0af2ae4db14dd86858b9319de7e6b... (note the social distancing sign!)

and at some point I learned of a russian berry or floret with a spherical form that was white while immature but turned red when ripe, which had made me wonder about traditional peasant costume colour codings.

[1] and their promises of sweet nothings? (for which "hunter green" floral dresses might be recommended: as with slobber from fifteen hand hunters, it's a colour well suited to hiding grass stains.) Compare https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24130589

Bonus track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnoqvRGc7pk (I hadn't thought before about confetti drops in the context of cottonwood fluff.)

Re: Dickheads (2015)

#22

With this kind of analysis I can make the wearing of a t-shirt, jeans and trainers all about the penis too. If you’re obsessed with how clothes represent genitals and sexuality, you’re going to find all clothes represent genitals and sexuality to some degree. Why that collar around the neck? Why that hoodie concealing the precise shape of the torso? Why the bright white of those Jordan Airs? I wear a tie occasionally…

You actually do not answer the main question. The fact that you personally ware a tie to conform to the norm does not explain how the norm came to be. Instead you talk in random directions, ending with a nice athominem attack against the author.

Some notes:

waitresses and front house staff are not in position of power, and it actually aligns with the thesis of the author which mentions that ties are sexualizing women.

You say that the tie hides the buttons of the shirt, but there is already such a solution for trousers and why not reuse the concept?

You say that ties are good when eating soup. However, they are not all that effective in their current form, not used for this purpose for the last few hundred years, and there is no sense carying it around through the entire day the way cutlery is not part of the men's office dress code as well.

Where I'd agree with you is in doubting the mental jump necessary to discover sexual symbolism in something which might be just a counterweight to otherwise boring exterior.

Re: Dickheads (2015)

#23

The tie as we know it, was a streamlined version of the cravat. Which was popularised in Europe during The Thirty Years War (1618–1648), by Croatian mercenaries. That knowledge has always pleased me, when I’ve had to wear a tie. That it’s descended from these swashbuckling, brightly attired, mercs.

To be fair, many high-status male attire items have descended from swashbuckling, brightly attired, mercs.

- clean-shaven, short-haired? originally for the advantage in hand-to-hand combat.[1]

- trousers? originally worn (in the mediterranean context) by dope smoking barbarian cavalrymen.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Sc...

- puffy renaissance hips? originally from the padding worn under the faulds/culet[2]. (anticipating the rise of plate carrier lower class cosplay in 2020?)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/e3/af/b5e3afaa3d4b6510263c...

[1] did Kadyrov go from short beard to long beard for religious reasons, or because he's now secure enough as a Border March Lord that he can play statesman instead of soldier? or something else?

[2] "Yours, if you talk of tales, and so farewell."

Re: Dickheads (2015)

#24
I think this kind of Freudian viewpoint about the purpose of all sorts of things began to fall out of fashion at the turn of the century (with the dying off of committed Freudians from the last century), and it sounds sort of ludicrous now - much like if someone started spouting off theories based on phrenology.

It reminds me of some book I was reading in the 80s that started off in the intro with the theory that rockets were shaped the way they were because men were obsessed with their penises and as such spaceflight was metaphorically mankind's rape of the cosmos (threw the book away as too ludicrously stupid to continue with so don't remember anything past that).

Re: Dickheads (2015)

#25

This was a fun and beguiling little read. I noticed more ideological leaks forming in the article the further I read. Of course Foucault is always the great give away. The trite little attacks on men at the end seal the deal.

Interesting you pick on any mention of Foucault as giving away ideological leanings, since, incidentally, Graeber was not a big fan.

From "Fragments of an Anarchist Anthropology":

> Academics love Michel Foucault’s argument that identifies knowledge and power, and insists that brute force is no longer a major factor in social control. They love it because it flatters them: the perfect formula for people who like to think of themselves as political radicals even though all they do is write essays likely to be read by a few dozen other people in an institutional environment. Of course, if any of these academics were to walk into their university library to consult some volume of Foucault without having remembered to bring a valid ID, and decided to enter the stacks anyway,they would soon discover that brute force is really not so far away as they like to imagine—a man with a big stick, trained in exactly how hard to hit people with it, would rapidly appear to eject them.

http://abahlali.org/files/Graeber.pdf

And "Dead Zones of the Imagination":

> Consider the hegemonic role, in US social theory, of Max Weber in the 1950s and 1960s, and of Michel Foucault since the 1970s. Their popularity, no doubt, had much to do with the ease with which each could be adopted as a kind of anti-Marx, their theories put forth (usually in crudely simplified form) to argue that power is not simply or primarily a matter of the control of production but rather a pervasive, multifaceted, and unavoidable feature of any social life ... Foucault was more subversive, but in a way that made bureaucratic power more effective, not less. In his work on asylums, clinics, prisons, and the rest, bodies, subjects—even truth itself—all become the products of administrative discourses. Through concepts like governmentality and biopower, state bureaucracies end up shaping the parameters of human existence in ways far more intimate than anything Weber might have imagined.

> Foucault’s ascendancy, in turn, was precisely within those fields of academic endeavor that both became the haven for former radicals, and were almost completely divorced from any access to political power—or, increasingly, from any influence on social movements as well. This gave Foucault’s emphasis on the “power/knowledge” nexus—the assertion that forms of knowledge are always also forms of social power, indeed, the most important forms of social power—a particular appeal.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.14318/hau2....

Re: Dickheads (2015)

#26

With this kind of analysis I can make the wearing of a t-shirt, jeans and trainers all about the penis too. If you’re obsessed with how clothes represent genitals and sexuality, you’re going to find all clothes represent genitals and sexuality to some degree. Why that collar around the neck? Why that hoodie concealing the precise shape of the torso? Why the bright white of those Jordan Airs? I wear a tie occasionally…

You actually do not answer the main question. The fact that you personally ware a tie to conform to the norm does not explain how the norm came to be. Instead you talk in random directions, ending with a nice athominem attack against the author. Some notes: waitresses and front house staff are not in position of power, and it actually aligns with the thesis of the author which mentions that ties are sexualizing women…

Don't some conforming uniformed people in the City carry around a pink newspaper to advertise their caste?

Waitresses and front house staff are wearing echoes of what the patrons of an establishment used to wear before the last clothing shift. After the next, will they all be in hoodies?

(I'm still waiting for the sexual interpretation of t-shirt and trainers? Hmm ... trainers do share gum soles with bordello creepers...)

Bonus track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et281UHNoOU

Bonus codepoint: U+130BA

Re: Dickheads (2015)

#27

With this kind of analysis I can make the wearing of a t-shirt, jeans and trainers all about the penis too. If you’re obsessed with how clothes represent genitals and sexuality, you’re going to find all clothes represent genitals and sexuality to some degree. Why that collar around the neck? Why that hoodie concealing the precise shape of the torso? Why the bright white of those Jordan Airs? I wear a tie occasionally…

"it’s about conformity." You just nailed it.

And yet it is the one piece of clothing where people get to display a small amount of distinctive style. So I think there is still something to be elucidated. If one gave a shit. Which one does not.

Re: Dickheads (2015)

#28
For me, wearing a tie is about beautiful symmetry: when the tie is exactly centered with a neat knoth, a series of elegant angles are created under the wearer's face. There is something very architectural about that.

By the way, a women wearing a neck tie to complete her business suit can be very attractive for me (a powerful encroachment on "male" attire), so the tie really can be universal.

I really don't understand the angst. Wear whatever the hell you want.

Re: Dickheads (2015)

#29
I think if you make a load of simplified sweeping generalisations about clothing and it's symbolic role in our culture you can come to some pretty banal yet fashionable conclusions. Oh look mens clothes are about power, womens clothes are like they are due to men exerting sexual power over women. Women don't have agency in our history, men are trying to show off their penises as an expression of power. Its all so predictable and boring. The dickhead joke is pretty good though.

Re: Dickheads (2015)

#30

I think this kind of Freudian viewpoint about the purpose of all sorts of things began to fall out of fashion at the turn of the century (with the dying off of committed Freudians from the last century), and it sounds sort of ludicrous now - much like if someone started spouting off theories based on phrenology. It reminds me of some book I was reading in the 80s that started off in the intro with the theory that roc…

I am of course still somewhat sympathetic to a little less obsessive view that ties may function as phallic symbols, given that there is a difference between design and engineering - a rocket is shaped the way it is because of its engineering purpose, but a tie seems to have no purpose other than design (although I suppose the cravat and pre-modern ties had other purposes.)

- I didn't think this observation should be an edit on the original comment.

on edit: changed per-modern to pre-modern.

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